Solar install turning out really bad - looking for some help/advice please.

[Living Large]

{snip} it is installations like yours that push me towards J.P.M.'s view that buying a house with a PV system already installed is less desirable than buying one without it. {snip}

In a tangental matter (though not pertinent to grid-tied houses), this made me think of something my Realtor told me. We were standing in the doorway of the off-grid camp that caused me to come here and learn about solar, in December at 4pm. It was cold and getting dark. She first said, "hey, if you paid to have electric installed ($90K+), the house would be on a par with others (on-grid) we were looking at." Then she said, "honestly, it is impossible to sell an off-grid house, even if it has solar. I can't even get people to look at them."

This continues to give me some pause.

I know that your comment applies to the quality of the design/install, on grid-tied. Maybe the moral is to think twice about a solar-powered house, whether grid-tied or not.

[foo1bar]

Maybe the moral is to think twice about a solar-powered house, whether grid-tied or not.

Grid tied IMO is going to be relatively neutral, to maybe a slight positive.
I'd want to have a good look at the roof. (extra $ to replace the roof if that's needed)
And I'd want to know what the production is - so that I could guess what it's worth in $ for production for it's remaining life.

Battery-based? Large negative IMO.
Have to deal with buying/maintaining/replacing batteries.
And the effective cost for electricity is pretty high.
Usually an off-grid setup means a remote location - which depending on your view could either outweigh the negative or is a negative by itself.

But this is fairly tangential to this thread.

Maybe you should start a separate thread.


BTW - Congrats HXGuy on getting your system running.
I don't think I'd start a new business doing solar installs if I were you. 1> I see lots of downside in ~22 months. 2> I think you would need more experience with electrical work. 3> you've only done 1 type of roof - and think about how many man-hours it took for that roof (both yours and others)

[Living Large]

But this is fairly tangential to this thread.

Maybe you should start a separate thread.

Not looking to hijack or start a thread - there isn't much to say that isn't obvious to people here, and you pretty much covered it. Continue with the discussion.

[Alisobob]

AZ law doesn't allow unlicensed contractors to do solar installs

After seeing the work your contractor did.... I think AZ would license a Baboon.

I'm pretty disappointed the AZ contractors board didn't take a proactive approach , and fry this guy.

[HX_Guy]

After seeing the work your contractor did.... I think AZ would license a Baboon.

I'm pretty disappointed the AZ contractors board didn't take a proactive approach , and fry this guy.

The complaint is still open, though I haven't heard anything yet and I mailed off the complaint on Jan 23rd. I did receive a copy of a letter dated Jan 27th that was sent to the contractor advising them that they have 15 days from the day of the letter to submit a written response addressing the allegations raised by the complaint and provide any documentation supporting their response. Tomorrow (02/11/15) is 15 days from that letter.

On a side note, I talked to a friend of mine who knows a guy at the ROC (or something to that effect) that said, as hard as it may be to believe, that the ROC actually sides with contractors while trying to come off as siding with the consumer. Reason being is that the contractors pay them through yearly renewal fees etc, so the more contractors on board the better. You'd think it would be corrupt like that, and it may not even be true, but would be sad if it is.

[J.P.M.]

Added to all that has been learned by the OP and everyone who followed this solar odyssey/cluster function, it's another example why I'd never buy a home with an existing solar system attached - simply put - unverifiable QA.

Other possible reasons that would cause me to look elsewhere: a system not properly sized for my needs, either way too big/small, paying too much for obsolete equipment in a fast evolving market, and the high probability of a system being a lemon due to the purchaser being one of the solar ignorant sheeple and therefore getting shorn.

Rather than start a solar business, maybe the OP could take the 700+ posts in this thread and use them as a syllabus for an on line self help course on how to get screwed by a solar contractor.

[russ]

The complaint was only filed two weeks back - give them some time. As far as they are concerned there are two sides to the story - they have to have both to do anything.

[Living Large]

On a side note, I talked to a friend of mine who knows a guy at the ROC (or something to that effect) that said, as hard as it may be to believe, that the ROC actually sides with contractors while trying to come off as siding with the consumer. Reason being is that the contractors pay them through yearly renewal fees etc, so the more contractors on board the better. You'd think it would be corrupt like that, and it may not even be true, but would be sad if it is.

EDIT As Russ said, there hasn't been enough time yet for the process you describe to have played out. They may not have heard back from him yet, or have a reply and need some time (week?) to process it.

By comparison, from what I know and have experienced with the BBB, it has its own incestuous nature. Businesses that pay for membership seem to always have A and A+ ratings. Businesses that don't, can have ratings over a much larger range. I have had the best luck making complaints against businesses that are NOT members. I spoke with one business rep after my complaint was resolved to my satisfaction, and she said "I HATE dealing with the BBB." My car repair shop has been a member but not currently, and views membership as "extortion."

What you describe doesn't surprise me at all. I think your last sentence is supposed to begin "You'd think it wouldn't be corrupt like that..."

[alienwulf]

The contractor has a way out, just tell the ROC whats the problem? system passed inspection. Client is just a flake complaining about nothing. I see that coming from him.

[prhamilton]

it's another example why I'd never buy a home with an existing solar system attached - simply put - unverifiable QA.

You can say that about any major sub-system of a home. How do you verify a sewer line was correctly designed and installed? What about the enclosed structural elements? You having an engineer verify all the point loads are designed correctly and house is structurally sound?

I would think a home inspector could/should do a reasonable job judging the quality of a solar installation. Does make me wonder if there are home inspectors that get specialized training in solar installs and the type mistakes or shortcuts to look for. I know when I bought my last house there were some drainage issues and the home inspector recommend a specialize inspection.

I think HX_guy could start a business doing solar install inspections. Pay him $500 to yank cables and check flashing would be money well spent after a new install or before buying a house.

[sensij]

You can say that about any major sub-system of a home. How do you verify a sewer line was correctly designed and installed? What about the enclosed structural elements? You having an engineer verify all the point loads are designed correctly and house is structurally sound?

The frequency with which PV systems are installed by DIY hacks or fly-by-night contractors appears to be high. It is harder to screw up the structural soundness of the house, although people manage to do that too. I generally assume that any renovation work done by a previous owner was done incorrectly, and inspect it accordingly.

[prhamilton]

Not as high as the DIY hacks and fly by night contractors that do bathroom and kitchen remodels.

You aren't trying hard enough, very easy to mess up the structural soundness of a house. I've seen compromised floor joist from ducting and plumbing. Incorrect headers for windows and doors. Roof and ceiling modifications that seem like a good idea. Load bearing walls removed or compromised. All these things are invisible and can't be inspected without a high cost.

I would think it would actually be much easier to inspect a solar install, especially if its been in service for a couple of years.

[HX_Guy]

The complaint was only filed two weeks back - give them some time. As far as they are concerned there are two sides to the story - they have to have both to do anything.

Well so much for the Registrar of Contractors doing anything. Got a call from them today...

"Hello, we'd like to come out and do a site inspection...unless everything has already been fixed?" :kierf:

I told the guy they came back out to fix the items, again incorrectly, failed inspection again...so I fixed the items, and it passed. Guy says "Well, if we can't verify the complaints there really isn't much that we can do about it, we'll have to close the case."

I expressed my concern to him on how this company is doing very poor work that goes un-inspected, I thought maybe the ROC would be a bit more pro-active and look into the company themselves but apparently not. I asked if the contract submitted a written answer to the allegations like the letter sent to them requested, and of course they haven't. The ROC actually said that that is more of a request, not something legally binding of them to do.

Funny, I guess my buddy that told me that he's heard doing an ROC complaint is pointless because even though the ROC tried to come off as protecting the consumer, they are really built more to protect the contract since that is who pays them through renewal fees and such was right.

[sensij]

Not as high as the DIY hacks and fly by night contractors that do bathroom and kitchen remodels.

You aren't trying hard enough, very easy to mess up the structural soundness of a house. I've seen compromised floor joist from ducting and plumbing. Incorrect headers for windows and doors. Roof and ceiling modifications that seem like a good idea. Load bearing walls removed or compromised. All these things are invisible and can't be inspected without a high cost.

I would think it would actually be much easier to inspect a solar install, especially if its been in service for a couple of years.

Yes, which is exactly why I assume that the renovations need to be inspected. I can choose to avoid the hassle and not buy a house with solar. I can't choose to buy a house without a bathroom or kitchen.

[Amy@altE]

Well so much for the Registrar of Contractors doing anything. Got a call from them today...

Funny, I guess my buddy that told me that he's heard doing an ROC complaint is pointless because even though the ROC tried to come off as protecting the consumer, they are really built more to protect the contract since that is who pays them through renewal fees and such was right.

Fox guarding the hen house.