Solar install turning out really bad - looking for some help/advice please.

[silversaver]

At this point, I think you need to find a 3rd party good installer to walk you through the insallation and making sure the job is good and complete. Pay him a fee will save your trouble.

You have good solid standoffs and racks you build. All you need is making sure the permit/inspection is passed. If you are not too sure with all the codes, please ask the right person to do final job for you.


Don't waste your time here trying to get it done by yourself.

[HX_Guy]

Anyone with such poor workmanship..... is probably a hard-core liar too.

Dude should never have allowed back on your job.

No doubt he's a liar but if he's going to go that route, he could have blamed me for it even if I never touched anything.

I think all the photos, emails and text message conversations I have will be proof enough to show that he is in fact to blame if it comes down to that.

[Alisobob]

The installer can claim any poor workmanship was done by you, and there's no proof either way.

Anyone with such poor workmanship..... is probably a hard-core liar too.

Dude should never have allowed back on your job.

[HX_Guy]

You seem to be ignoring any suggestions of getting legal advice, just like you ignored the suggestions that were given when you began this whole thing. Why is that? I think there is a pretty good chance you are turning this thing from a clear cut case into a he said/he said case. The installer can claim any poor workmanship was done by you, and there's no proof either way.

Because going that route will cost considerably more money and time. I feel this could be fixed and done within a day...hours really...and am still holding out hope for that.

[sdold]

You seem to be ignoring any suggestions of getting legal advice, just like you ignored the suggestions that were given when you began this whole thing. Why is that? I think there is a pretty good chance you are turning this thing from a clear cut case into a he said/he said case. The installer can claim any poor workmanship was done by you, and there's no proof either way.

[control4userguy]

Just as an outsider, I am very impressed with your attitude under these poor circumstances. I know you are going through turmoil but I would want the kind of thought, research and attention to detail you've put into your system. I probably didn't get that with my install. That piece of mind, you can say later, was all worth it. Just tell us you didn't use all your family vacation time on this project

[HX_Guy]

The situation is so screwed that I can't even fire the guy apparently. I've reached out to the Registrar of Contractors to get information on how the process of a formal complaint would work and I'm waiting on an email back but I was told by another electrians that I can't bring in someone new to finish the job at this point. I have to file a formal complaint with the ROC and also give the current installer written notice of my intent to fire him and bring in someone new otherwise I risk being sued for not giving the installer a fair chance to correct whatever problems there are...as if I haven't given him plently of chances and been more than patient already.

[control4userguy]

I'm beginning to think the more you do the better off your installer is. At some point (if not now), your involvement will eliminate him from any liability whatsoever. That's not to say you are in the wrong but maybe it's best to walk-away from him and chock it up lesson learned. The time you have spent, weighed against that same time spent at whatever it is you do to survive, I question as good ROI. Sad, but I guess you can say "you did it your way".

[HX_Guy]

Of course he probably doesn't believe that I didn't even yank on it. It didn't even cross my mind to check his connections, it was purely accidental that I I even noticed.

I was unplugging the MC4 connectors to move them to the other side and noticed the wire moved, wasn't even sure. At that point, I did then tug on it a bit and it slid right out. Zero effort even required. As bcroe said though, you shouldn't be able to remove those plugs almost no matter how hard you try short of holding each end with a plier and pulling with all your strength.

And yeah, now knowing two are loose (I checked the other 5 connected to the combiner), he can bet his ass I'm going to check every single other one.

[bcroe]

if a homeowner yanks on a wire, and states they yanked on it, who is to say how hard they yanked? I believe you didn't yank hard - but this guy isn't your average contractor.

Never mind how hard yanked; it would be impossible to pull out if properly crimped. An
examination of that or any of his crimps will reveal they are well below standard. Bruce Roe

[Living Large]

I wrote in my email to him about the loose connector and also attached a picture. It slipped my mind to mention it in the phone conversation however he said something to the effect of "If you want to go up on the roof and start yanking on cables and void your warranty thats on you." So basically he's accusing me of pulling out the cables on purpose? Not even sure.

But yes, I do plan on going through and double checking the connectors myself. Even if he checks them himself, I don't trust him to redo them.

As for the two loose ones that I do know of, I left them as is so he can see for himself.

Unfortunately, this is the situation you are in. Someone who doesn't care about the quality of his work, does poor quality work, and has someone now inspecting every single thing he did. Given that baseline, and the fact this project appears to be a money loser for him, that reaction is not surprising. And when you think about it, if a homeowner yanks on a wire, and states they yanked on it, who is to say how hard they yanked? I believe you didn't yank hard - but this guy isn't your average contractor. You finding things means that much more uncompensated time he may have to spend.

[HX_Guy]

I wrote in my email to him about the loose connector and also attached a picture. It slipped my mind to mention it in the phone conversation however he said something to the effect of "If you want to go up on the roof and start yanking on cables and void your warranty thats on you." So basically he's accusing me of pulling out the cables on purpose? Not even sure.

But yes, I do plan on going through and double checking the connectors myself. Even if he checks them himself, I don't trust him to redo them.

As for the two loose ones that I do know of, I left them as is so he can see for himself.

[Volusiano]

Just got off the phone with the installer (called him). Asked him what is going on with the project, he said he is picking up the permit (he thought I had it for some reason, I told him previously I had a copy of it from the city) and fixing what they asked for on the permit. I asked if he is redoing the permit vs changing the wiring, and he said he is doing both because the inspector noted that the PV meter socket model is not specified on the permit and to either specify it on the permit or get a letter of clarification form the design company. I don't know why he is electing to resubmit the permit vs the letter...to buy time I can only assume?

He acknowledged that he received my email and he said "I'm going to get what the inspector requested fixed and I'm going to get the city inspection passed and the APS inspection passed and be done with this. If you want to go about talking to the city, and to the inspector and all that, you go ahead but you're not going to tell me how to run my company, I'm going to run my company. This is the worst job I've ever had in my life. If you want to report me to the registrar of contractors and not pay me and hire an attorney, fine do what you need to do."

I told him this wouldn't have been the worst job of his life if he would have just done it properly from the start. I asked what kind of timeframe are we looking at and he said he is going to resubmit with the city tomorrow and when it's approved he is going to come out and redo the wiring.

Again to me it sounds like he's trying to buy some time, there is no reason to resubmit the permit especially that I told him I already received something from the designer to clarify the PV meter socket model. I think to that again he said he is going to do it how he wants to do it and he is going to run his business, not me.

I didn't see you mention here whether you talked with him about the workmanship issue of the loose wiring on the MC4 connector or not. I think this workmanship issue is just as important as the passing inspection issue, although it's easy to be swept under the rug by the installer.

Did you just go ahead and fix the loose wiring yourself already? Or are you waiting to tell him to do it? And if he manages to pass the inspection next time and refuse to remove the panels to check the rest of the wiring again, what are you going to do? Remove the panels and check it yourself?

[sensij]

Makes sense. And the idea that the voltage output of the optimizers would be higher than normal to make up for voltage loss in the connectors just does not seem credible to me.
With normal panels, you could be looking at an open circuit voltage on the order of 500V, but when the optimizers are open circuited or isolated from the SE inverter they drop their output to 1V.

I've looked into this some more, and yeah, the idea that the high-ish inverter voltage reported is reflecting DC voltage drop is incorrect. However, the thought I was chasing is, I think, still valid. In the non-public data shown in the monitoring portal, it is possible to see the DC output voltage of each of the optimizers. For each string, you could sum up the voltages of each of the optimizers. The voltage total for each string should be approximately equal, and perhaps slightly higher than the voltage reported by the inverter. If one of the strings has a higher voltage sum that can't be explained by a longer wire run, it could be an indication of a bad connection somewhere in that string. It could also mean the voltage calibration of the optimizers isn't good enough, I don't really know.

Anyway, just trying to think of ways to detect how many more bad MC4 connections might be in there. For those who might not be aware, pulling on the wires during the day as HX_Guy described can be done sort of safely with a SolarEdge system because when the inverter is off, the DC drops to 1 V per optimizer (as inetdog mentioned). With a normal string inverter, it is not a good idea, because there is no way to shut off the DC power in the array.

It is totally tangential, but the calculation of Voc in a SolarEdge system is very different than in a "normal" system. Because the panels are not connected, the Voc is only the value of the individual panel. That doesn't change no matter how many panels you connect, or how you choose to connect them.

[Ian S]

I really really REALLY think you need some legal advice. He will only do the minimum necessary to get it approved and if something goes south months from now, he's setting up an excuse to blame it on YOU causing the problems by meddling with his work.