C-46 Solar Licensees that claim they can do roofing work (State of California)

[subdriver97]

Note: references below to contractor license classifications are for the State of California

I am planning to install a solar pv system on my home built in 1984. The concrete tile roof is original and due for roofing re-lay. I plan to do this in conjunction with the solar installation.

A solar vendors that holds C-10 Electrical and C-46 Solar licenses (but not a C-39 Roofing License) advised me that they can do the roofing work under the C-46 Solar license. I reviewed the state requirements for the C-39 Roofing and C-46 Solar licenses and my personal conclusion is that a C-46 license is insufficient to do a roofing re-lay job. The details of my research are below.

I'd like to get opinions, especially professional opinions if any contractors in the industry are reading this. Would also be great if anyone knows how to present this question to the state licensing board itself. I didn't see a way to ask questions, only file complaints on their website.

The verbiage of the C-46 Solar License Classification description reads:
"A solar contractor installs, modifies, maintains, and repairs thermal and photovoltaic solar energy systems. A licensee classified in this section shall not undertake or perform building or construction trades, crafts, or skills, except when required to install a thermal or photovoltaic solar energy system."

Assuming the a roofing re-lay qualifies as "building or construction trades, crafts, or skills". Interpretation of the above blurb could lead one to believe that a licensee classified under C-46 could legally contract a roofing re-lay job. However, review of the C-46 Solar License exam study guide provided by the state examining board reveals that the sole topic associated with roofing covered on the C-46 Solar exam is waterproof penetrations. There is a plethora of roofing skills in the C-39 Roofing Exam not covered by the C-46 Solar Exam.

http://www.cslb.ca.gov/Resources/StudyGuides/C46StudyGuide.pdf

http://www.cslb.ca.gov/Resources/StudyGuides/C39StudyGuide.pdf

In my mind this allows a C-46 licensee to install roof mounted solar (solar/thermal) stanchions and nothing else. Certainly not a roofing re-lay.

I'm pretty surprised as the C-10/46 vendor that suggested that they can do this work is highly reputable for their work on this forum and solarreviews.com.

[CA_Tom]

Assuming the a roofing re-lay qualifies as "building or construction trades, crafts, or skills". Interpretation of the above blurb could lead one to believe that a licensee classified under C-46 could legally contract a roofing re-lay job. However, review of the C-46 Solar License exam study guide provided by the state examining board reveals that the sole topic associated with roofing covered on the C-46 Solar exam is waterproof penetrations. There is a plethora of roofing skills in the C-39 Roofing Exam not covered by the C-46 Solar Exam.

http://www.cslb.ca.gov/Resources/StudyGuides/C46StudyGuide.pdf

http://www.cslb.ca.gov/Resources/StudyGuides/C39StudyGuide.pdf

In my mind this allows a C-46 licensee to install roof mounted solar (solar/thermal) stanchions and nothing else. Certainly not a roofing re-lay.

I'm pretty surprised as the C-10/46 vendor that suggested that they can do this work is highly reputable for their work on this forum and solarreviews.com.

I would also interpret that as they are within their license to do major roof fixes if they are doing it as part of a solar install.

What's your concern?
Whether they're competent to do it?
Or whether the licensing would be unhappy?

I'd ignore the licensing for the first question. I'm more worried about competency in itself than a piece of paper.

For the second it seems that they're within the rules.

BTW I would expect them to have to often handle flashing conduits and pipes coming up as well... And if they can do that, what else are you concerned about with your roof? (Not rhetorical... there could be things to worry about.)

And why are you reroofing anyhow? I thought those roofs were typically good for >50 years with only replacing the occasional broken tile.

[subdriver97]

I would also interpret that as they are within their license to do major roof fixes if they are doing it as part of a solar install.

What's your concern?
Whether they're competent to do it?
Or whether the licensing would be unhappy?

I'd ignore the licensing for the first question. I'm more worried about competency in itself than a piece of paper.

For the second it seems that they're within the rules.

BTW I would expect them to have to often handle flashing conduits and pipes coming up as well... And if they can do that, what else are you concerned about with your roof? (Not rhetorical... there could be things to worry about.)

And why are you reroofing anyhow? I thought those roofs were typically good for >50 years with only replacing the occasional broken tile.

The tiles themselves are good for 50+ years... manufacturers will even offer a lifetime warranty, but the underlying felt that provides the actual watertight integrity of the roof has a 25-30 year lifespan is it is a single layer of #30 felt. The tiles are actually just there to protect the felt. Also, in case you're not familiar with "roof re-lay", it is a process where all the tiles are removed, all the old felt is removed and the roof is taken to the bare wood, new felt is laid, and the old tiles are rebuilt on the new felt. A single layer of #30 felt is often the standard in new construction to save cost and time. Ideally, you will have two layers of #40 felt that will last as long as the tiles.

What am I looking for? I'm looking for the warm fuzzy feeling that the contractor I hire to do my roof re-lay work is going to deliver a watertight roof for my home (for a very long time). To that ends I would like either:

1. For someone in the industry to tell me definitively if a C-46 license is sufficient to legally perform a roofing re-lay as the legality implies competence since the point of the state licensing regulations is to protect consumers from vendors that would purport to have competence for the working question when they in fact do not. I'm not a roofing expert but I'm sure if I asked one if there was anything to know about re-laying a roof other than how to properly install waterproof flashing I'm willing to bet I would get a pretty long list. I think it's one thing to have a non-licensed handyman to do a few odd jobs around the house or even moderate re-modeling work, but it's another thing to trust the water-tight integrity of your roof to someone that is not fully qualified. Agreed though that legally qualified does not guarantee actually qualified.

or

2. In lieu of a C-39 Roofing license, to figure out how to evaluate the competency of a contractor to provide an assuredly water-tight roof? Would you just be happy if they provided a a warranty (say 10 years?) Note that it's also a possibility that someone that doesn't know what they are doing could just improperly lay two layers of felt... and it's adequate for 10+ years, but fails after that... but a properly installed two layers should last as long as the tiles.

I'm not saying that if someone has a C-39 roofing license I'm not going still find out about their experience, past work, etc. I'm just saying if I did do all that but know that they don't have a C-39, I'm uncomfortable, unless someone knowledgeable about roofing can explain why I shouldn't be.

[thejq]

Have you tried to get a roofer to give you an estimate on just the roofing work?

[CA_Tom]

1. For someone in the industry to tell me definitively if a C-46 license is sufficient to legally perform a roofing re-lay as the legality implies competence

IMO No - it just lets you know that someone was able to pass a test that is mostly relevant to that license.
(And I'm not even sure how much that person actually has to be on-site.)

. I'm not a roofing expert but I'm sure if I asked one if there was anything to know about re-laying a roof other than how to properly install waterproof flashing I'm willing to bet I would get a pretty long list.

Yes - but what would they say about *YOUR* roof?

For my roof they'd say "yep, standard comp shingle roof - We'll have to handle those N penetrations. There's 3 ridges, 1 valley, and that one section of roof that abuts the wall. The flashing for the wall will take me a little longer, but otherwise it's a pretty straightforward job."

or

2. In lieu of a C-39 Roofing license, to figure out how to evaluate the competency of a contractor to provide an assuredly water-tight roof?

IMO? References.

[Mike90250]

Often, older roofs, the boards under the felt, are shot, and may need replacing too.

Ask the vendor if they HAVE done concrete tiles before, and do you have a stock of spares to replace the ones they WILL break.

[russ]

do you have a stock of spares to replace the ones they WILL break.

When people think of cement tiles I expect that many think of the strength of concrete. Not close - cement tiles are resistant against the weather and sun over the guarantee period and if a person takes reasonable care walking should not break them if they have been properly installed.

Workmen carrying heavy loads may try to take care but to use an old saying, "**** happens". Tiles do get broke.

[Bikerscum]

One trick I've heard for replacing broken tiles... the new ones will never match the old ones exactly, so put the new ones under the panels where they won't show, and use the ones from under the panels to replace the broken ones.

[Krazy1]

One trick I've heard for replacing broken tiles... the new ones will never match the old ones exactly, so put the new ones under the panels where they won't show, and use the ones from under the panels to replace the broken ones.

This is correct! The pigment used to die the tile, will fade after years of UV exposure. I am a roofing contractor in Florida where we use a lot of tile, make sure you use a good modified underlayment. Never use felt under tile. Peel and stick or SBS torch modified!! If your contractor makes any mistakes re-installing your tiles, that type of underlayment will protect you.

For the record, I would hire a licensed roofing contractor to do the roofing work! Especially with tile because problems are not easily corrected.

[Krazy1]

One trick I've heard for replacing broken tiles... the new ones will never match the old ones exactly, so put the new ones under the panels where they won't show, and use the ones from under the panels to replace the broken ones.

This is correct! The pigment used to die the tile, will fade after years of UV exposure. I am a roofing contractor in Florida where we use a lot of tile, make sure you use a good modified underlayment. Never use felt under tile. Peel and stick or SBS torch modified!! If your contractor makes any mistakes re-installing, that type of underlayment will protect you.

For the record, I would hire a licensed roofing contractor to do the roofing work! Especially with tile because problems are not easily corrected.

[J.P.M.]

When people think of cement tiles I expect that many think of the strength of concrete. Not close - cement tiles are resistant against the weather and sun over the guarantee period and if a person takes reasonable care walking should not break them if they have been properly installed.

Workmen carrying heavy loads may try to take care but to use an old saying, "**** happens". Tiles do get broke.

And some things to keep in mind (besides where the roof edges are) when walking on concrete tile roofs: Concrete is lousy in tension. That's usually why concrete tiles break. An unsupported tile will break from the bottom (underside) when stepped on. So, for most flat concrete tiles, walk on the supported portion of the tile if at all. That usually means the lower edge of a row in the center portion of any tile, and flatfooted if possible - and stay away from the edges of tiles.

As mechanical engineer students we were told civil engineers had it easy: all they needed to remember were 2 things: Don't pull on concrete and don't push on a rope.

[subdriver97]

I am a roofing contractor in Florida where we use a lot of tile, make sure you use a good modified underlayment. Never use felt under tile. Peel and stick or SBS torch modified!! If your contractor makes any mistakes re-installing, that type of underlayment will protect you.

Felt (2-layers #40) under tile seems to be the standard in So. California. I'm wondering that is the case because there is less precipitation in So. California.

[Krazy1]

Felt (2-layers #40) under tile seems to be the standard in So. California. I'm wondering that is the case because there is less precipitation in So. California.

It could be. Here in Florida we only put felt under shingles. Metal and tile always gets Modified. We did get a storm last spring that dumped 28'' of rain in 12 hours.

[subdriver97]

It could be. Here in Florida we only put felt under shingles. Metal and tile always gets Modified. We did get a storm last spring that dumped 28'' of rain in 12 hours.

That's a lot more rain than So. California that averages 10-15 inches per annum (based on NOAA data).

[Krazy1]

That's a lot more rain than So. California that averages 10-15 inches per annum (based on NOAA data).

I believe the last stats from my area here in Northwest FL was 60'' to 70'' per year. Your right, that's a big difference.