Centro Solar panels and company?

[Ian S]

No, as payment, double checked...as long as I pay their processing fee of $2.8% which is understandable given the large purchase amount (we accept credit cards for our business too so I know how that can be). That's really the only reason I'm considering it, I think the risk would be too big if I couldn't use AE but since I can, is there really much risk? What could go wrong? <- famous last words

The problem with relying on the AMEX dispute mechanism is that you could get into a situation where delays by the installer result in closure of the time window for disputing a charge. That's the thing with problem installers - like mine for example - delays can be long as the installer juggles shaky finances. In my situation, I signed the lease the first week in October 2011 but my system wasn't up and running until May 18, 2012. Fortunately, my Sunpower prepaid lease required no upfront money. Still the only reason I held out until the end was the deal I got and the fact that the APS incentive would have been cut by a factor of five if I had started over with a different installer.

[HX_Guy]

Thanks Ian, you said it much better than what I would of said.

I haven't made my decision in either direction, which like you said, is why I'm asking questions. Obviously if there no financial incentive to go with an F rated installer vs an A rated installer with top of the line equipment it would be no question, but we're talking about a difference of about $36,000 cash out of pocket between the two...it at least merits some consideration.

[HX_Guy]

The problem with relying on the AMEX dispute mechanism is that you could get into a situation where delays by the installer result in closure of the time window for disputing a charge. That's the thing with problem installers - like mine for example - delays can be long as the installer juggles shaky finances. In my situation, I signed the lease the first week in October 2011 but my system wasn't up and running until May 18, 2012. Fortunately, my Sunpower prepaid lease required no upfront money. Still the only reason I held out until the end was the deal I got and the fact that the APS incentive would have been cut by a factor of five if I had started over with a different installer.

Wow that's quite the time frame! Yikes!

I do like someone's proposal a few replies back that said to put a timeline on the install...if it's not on the roof in X weeks then money back, or at least have something that will guarantee in writing the install timeframe and if it doesn't happen, then I could dispute. Not sure they would agree to something like that because some things, like permitting, is out of their control a bit. Either way, I could probably dispute the whole job if I dont see things getting done in the time frame they verbally promise. Like I mentioned, they are stating ~3 weeks from the day we start to the system being installed.

[silversaver]

I probably should let the OP answer but I don't think your sarcasm is warranted. The effort to understand how best to utilize available roof space and deal with partial shading issues using various design tools without simply relying on installer dictates is something I've found quite interesting and illuminating. And yes, the installer is F rated. But the OP has a compelling reason to at least consider that installer which he has clearly delineated. He's also considered steps to take that might give some protection against poor performance by the installer. That he is seeking out advice from this board on all these things before proceeding is something to be applauded not ridiculed IMHO. We all learn when these sorts of issues are discussed rather than dismissed.

I have my solar installed on Dec 2013, I do understand the importance of research, understand and finding the best deal. There are good deals out there if you spend your time. I even choose Bosch discontinued panels for my solar because of the price. I have follow OP's posts regarding his solar research which I find it interesting too. He has done his homework. I only gave the advice to avoid putting panels at hard shade area because there's no way you get anything out of it for your money.

Now, saving the money by finding a F rating installer and use AE card for additional guarantee against installer? That is just too much. You are not finding a great deal, but looking for trouble.

[HX_Guy]

Silversaver, I do appreciate your input on the shade and took it into consideration. Of the two setups I've narrowed it down to, one doesn't have any panels installed where there would be hard shade during the productive hours of the winter months. This would be the setup with the SunPower panels.



The Centro Solar setup pushes the panels up as high as possible and installed in landscape mode so the shade would only have an impact for a couple of months at most and the diodes could also function properly.



As for the installer, sometimes crap happens and you get an unhappy customer. Something obviously happened back in 2011 and the company didn't do any additional installs or solar work until this year. But like I said, the one customer from 2011 that I talked to was happy with the install and their system and I plan to talk to everyone that I can. I should also mention that the installer also owns another business, which isnt BBB listed, but they do have a license for that as well with no complaints. Looks at permit history, that business is actually their main occupations as there are a ton more permits pulled for that than there are for solar installs.

[silversaver]

I recall I have suggested you to try the calculation on the Northern roof, have you? If you are on a string inverter perhaps do a little calculation and see if it make sense to you. Yes, SP is very expensive but if your have the roof space why not putting fewer more panels at lower overall price but still get the same output. It is all about calculation. Shading is hard to calculate when there's so many unknown factors. Your neighbor's house is really close to yours.

[HX_Guy]

The northern roof is pitched at 17º so 1. the panels would need to be angled quite high to then face south, I think it would look odd and 2. there are a ton of vents on the northern roof so it would really complicate things as some the city will not allow you to put panels on top of them or move them. The southern roof has only 3 vents, two which they go on top of with the panels.

[HX_Guy]

I talked to a second person who had their system installed by this company back in 2011, actually stopped by their house since they live about a mile from us. The lady had nothing but good things to say about them, said the install went well and was on schedule, she couldn't remember exactly how long it took since it was 3 years ago but said "a few weeks". Hasn't had any problems with the install, system or leaks and her electric bill has been $9/month ever since. She said she would definitely recommend them and was surprised to hear about their bad BBB rating, actually said she would go on there and give them a positive one.

I have a few more people to talk to but so far 2 people and 2 positive reviews.

[+3 Golfer]

With the money saved on this latest quote, you can "afford" to take a few risks like like installer not being around down the road for their warranty on equipment (exclude inverter and panels which should have manufacturer's warranty), roofing leaks, and labor warranty. Installer should give you at least a 10 year warranty. Although I doubt you will ever need the installer's warranty.

My schedule of payments on my current PV system was $1000 upon signup, 40% less $1000 after solar permit issued by county, balance (60%) after passing county and SRP inspections less SRP incentive assigned to vendor. So, first I'd say offer them 40% before install (not 60%) split 5% signup, 15% after permit issued and 15% after panels delivered (remember the SolarWorld panels that never showed up) and then 50% after system passes inspections, and 10% upon commissioning.

Here was my actual schedule of events. I signed my contract on March 24. Permit application to Pinal Co and application to SRP was submitted prior to April 3. SRP approved April 12. Pinal County issued building permit on April 18. Installation was May 9. Pinal Co. inspected / approved on May 20, SRP inspected and approved May 29 (have to have Pinal Co. approval first). SRP commissioned on June 10. I think I could have shaved maybe a week off had I called to schedule the Pinal Co. inspection the day the system was being installed. It took a several days for the vendor's scheduler to get the paper work, contact me on convenient dates and then schedule. So, it took about 11 weeks total time from contract signing until commissioning. Install time was about 6 1/2 weeks after signing. I think 5 weeks from contract signing until install sounds ambitious.

[HX_Guy]

LOL, he actually said 3 weeks to install, not 5. Basically said after we sign on, it would be a week for the design and submit for permit, then a week for the permit from Peoria, which he said is pretty quick with turning around permits, and then they would be out to install afterwards. He did say APS would take the longest, up to 1 month before they would come out. Seem a bit too crazy optimistic?

As for the payment breakdown, it's not 60% prior to install. It's 15% on sign up (down payment) and 15% after design and permit submittal, so 30% total prior to install. After the panels are on the roof and rest of the system installed, then it would be an additional 60% and the final 10% after the system is turned on by APS.

As far as warranty, the quote says:

"We will provide the Customer with a copy of the equipment manufacturer’s warranty. We will provide an additional 5 years of warranty on the solar modules to the homeowner at no charge. We will warranty the install for a period of ten years against defects in overall installation of the system that result in degradation in electrical output of more than 15% from the originally rated output during the 10 year period, including roof leaks within four (4) inches of PV attachment points. The warranty includes no-cost repair or replacement and any associated labor not otherwise provided by the manufacturer"

Seems pretty good, if they are around to honor it.


Back to previous customers, I stopped by another job they did and the homeowners weren't home so I couldn't talk to them, but the panels were actually on their garage so I was able to snap some photos. I have no experience with these but it seemed ok to me. They actually did something I haven't seen on any other install, which was chicken wire all around the panels to prevent birds/rodents from going under...thought that was a nice touch, but maybe the homeowner did it?

[+3 Golfer]

LOL, I originally thought you meant 3 weeks but I re-read and said I bet HX means finish 3weeks after the two weeks. Do you know if APS inspects and turns on the same day. My first system was with APS and first the APS inspector came and then once approved the APS service tech came out a week or so later with the meter and we threw the switch.

I should have went back and checked the payment schedule. My point though is the third payment (60%) should be after city and APS inspection not after install.

[Ian S]

LOL, I originally thought you meant 3 weeks but I re-read and said I bet HX means finish 3weeks after the two weeks. Do you know if APS inspects and turns on the same day. My first system was with APS and first the APS inspector came and then once approved the APS service tech came out a week or so later with the meter and we threw the switch.

My install was turned on as soon as the APS inspector approved it. The meter was actually swapped out the day before the inspector came by. Once the inspector had given the OK, the solar production meter was installed and the system turned on all while the inspector was still there IIRC.

[HX_Guy]

My point though is the third payment (60%) should be after city and APS inspection not after install.

After the city and APS come out, then the system is finished and on right? Sounds like that's what Ian is saying. I don't think the installer would be ok with getting only 30% throughout the whole project and 70% after it's done.

I'm pretty ok with 60% after it's installed, that's my biggest concern, actually getting the parts.

[KRenn]

I think you have to be a bit crazy to use that bunch!

I agree. It isn't the stuff you see today that is the problem but what happens down the road that would worry me the most.

[HX_Guy]

I agree. It isn't the stuff you see today that is the problem but what happens down the road that would worry me the most.

What kind of things should I be worried about long term? I'm thinking the roofing install is the biggest concern (leaks) because the panels and inverter are covered by the manufacturers.