Is it possible to get ZERO electric bill?

[billvon]

In San Diego you can zero out your elec. bill and even get money back. It will probably not be cost effective to add that much solar however, at least not at this time.

Definitely, and that's an important consideration. Because of how pricing in San Diego is "tiered" you get a huge return from getting out of the higher tiers, less from reducing your usage in Tier 1. This goes somewhat contrary to the usual advice to "reduce your loads first" because aggressively reducing your loads will probably get you into Tier 1 anyway. That increases payback time (now you're into the 15-20 year range) but it's still cheaper to reduce loads first.

To address the original poster, looks like you're already in Tier 1 (usually around 15 cents/kwhr) so use that number when you are calculating payback times.

[J.P.M.]

Definitely, and that's an important consideration. Because of how pricing in San Diego is "tiered" you get a huge return from getting out of the higher tiers, less from reducing your usage in Tier 1. This goes somewhat contrary to the usual advice to "reduce your loads first" because aggressively reducing your loads will probably get you into Tier 1 anyway. That increases payback time (now you're into the 15-20 year range) but it's still cheaper to reduce loads first.

To address the original poster, looks like you're already in Tier 1 (usually around 15 cents/kwhr) so use that number when you are calculating payback times.

Indeed! Solar is not an end goal in and of itself, but is only one of many ways to lower an electric bill. On the list of things to do to lower that bill, solar is usually farther down the list of cost effective measures to take on the road to lower electric bills than common sense and conservation. One way to look at this solar business is that it is all about its place in the pecking order of cost effectiveness of various measures to lower an electric bill. First on that list being to use less electricity - the payback time on that is as short as your next utility bill. And - you'll do more for the planet using less electricity than throwing expensive solar at a utility bill.

[russ]

Not to mention that someday the practical side is going to hit states up along side of the head and they cut the FIT to wholesale while the connection fees remain.

[Lomag]

Are SRECs something unique to your contract, or are they something all solar people should know about?
Bruce Roe

Hi Bruce, SREC's are a state created program to give a further incentive for solar by requiring electric companies to purchase "green credits", aka. SREC's. I believe its most popular in NJ but also available in other states like PA, MD, DE, OH, MD and Washington DC, although the SREC values in the other states are much much less (~$50 ea). IMO, it's all a big scam but it's working for now and I'll take the extra cash! Heck, SREC's in NJ used to be worth almost $700 ea, until the market became so over-supplied with new solar installations by people watching to collect SREC income, the market collapsed to about $65 ea. NJ passed legislation increasing the amount of SREC's power companies were required to buy so the market has since recovered to around $150 where it will probably remain in this range ($100 - $200 ea) for a while.

[bcroe]

Hi Bruce, SREC's are a state created program to give a further incentive for solar by requiring electric companies to purchase "green credits", aka. SREC's. I believe its most popular in NJ but also available in other states like PA, MD, DE, OH, MD and Washington DC, although the SREC values in the other states are much much less (~$50 ea). IMO, it's all a big scam but it's working for now and I'll take the extra cash! Heck, SREC's in NJ used to be worth almost $700 ea, until the market became so over-supplied with new solar installations by people watching to collect SREC income, the market collapsed to about $65 ea. NJ passed legislation increasing the amount of SREC's power companies were required to buy so the market has since recovered to around $150 where it will probably remain in this range ($100 - $200 ea) for a while.

Thanks for the explanation, haven't heard about any of this in IL. Are they sold once, or yearly,
price varying? Is the number of SRECs tied to plant size, or actual production? Bruce Roe

[Naptown]

Thanks for the explanation, haven't heard about any of this in IL. Are they sold once, or yearly,
price varying? Is the number of SRECs tied to plant size, or actual production? Bruce Roe

If you are in the PJM GATS grid there is a possibility you may be able to sell them into PA They are about $70 each megawatt of production

[bcroe]

If you are in the PJM GATS grid there is a possibility you may be able to
sell them into PA They are about $70 each megawatt of production

Thanks but its for power you sell to the grid? I might PRODUCE a couple a month, but I end
up using it all myself. Yes saving emissions, but only I can read the production. Bruce Roe

[Naptown]

Thanks but its for power you sell to the grid? I might PRODUCE a couple a month, but I end
up using it all myself. Yes saving emissions, but only I can read the production. Bruce Roe

Go to SRECTRADE.com
You can sell them into PA About $70 each megawatt hour that you generate. It has nothing to do with how much you export to the grid.
PM me and I will tell you where to send me my check for this tip

[bcroe]

SRECTRADE.com

Go to SRECTRADE.com You can sell them into PA About $70 each
megawatt hour that you generate. It has nothing to do with how much you export to the grid.
PM me and I will tell you where to send me my check for this tip

Thanks, with a potential of a couple grand a year, guess I had better pursue this. Chances of
this project going into the black are looking better and better. Bruce Roe

[Lomag]

SRECtrade says if your power company is Com Ed you can register your system to sell SREC's in PA, otherwise no. PA SREC's just recently went up in value (I'm not sure why) .. they were always trading in the ~$10 range making the hassle not even worth it for most.

[pleppik]

Thanks for the explanation, haven't heard about any of this in IL. Are they sold once, or yearly,
price varying? Is the number of SRECs tied to plant size, or actual production? Bruce Roe

Bruce:

SRECs are basically a market-driven incentive program. The state requires the utility to generate a certain amount of renewable power each year, and typically the utility can do this either by building their own capacity or by buying renewable power on the open market. Anyone with a PV system in the state gets SRECs based on the actual PV production of the system, and can sell that SREC to the highest bidder. The utility which buys the SREC gets to count that PV generation towards its renewable requirement.

IMHO, this is a good design for an incentive program. If you are going to have an incentive, this is the right way to do it:

• It's market-driven, so as people build more PV capacity the value of the incentive automatically goes down.
• It's based on production, not capacity, so there's an incentive to design the system well.
• It allows a certain amount of cross-border renewable energy trading, giving an incentive to put the capacity where it makes the most sense.

[inetdog]

IMHO, this is a good design for an incentive program. If you are going to have an incentive, this is the right way to do it:
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[LIST]

I am sorry pleppik, but that makes entirely too much sense to ever be adopted anywhere.

[dahur]

I've had solar power for 4 years. My first month was a partial, and I think the bill was $30. Every month after that my bill has been zero. PNM here in New Mexico applies my REC money against the bill, including all the connection charges, fees, tax whatever. The monthly check I get from them for the surplus is usually $60-80. I kinda like having a zero electrical bill...but the monthly check is icing on the cake. By time AC starts June 1st, I should have 1200KW in the bank.

So can solar power zero out your bill..? As previously mentioned all states are different. Here in NM, yes. Upper right hand corner there's the zero......the number hi-lighted in black is what is due me. $65.54 this month.

[ajpslp]

Very nice $65 credit, Im in New York and all along I know zero was not an option as solar company clearly told us that , just received first bill with zero usage from con ed , my bill was $18.05 total. If we over produce which we all have been a credit will be applied to our account at one year cycle or check sent to us. BUT its multiplied by wholesale rate which is like .09 a kilowatt so not much $$ in return but still good with that