Anyone with good cleaning tips?

[silversaver]

Wonderful how sales people play with data and words! CSI has a different purpose and is far more accurate.

Sorry, what is your point?

[russ]

The expected value were exat same number from CSI calculater

http://www.csi-epbb.com/default.aspx

[ATTACH=CONFIG]3612[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]3613[/ATTACH]

Wonderful how sales people play with data and words! CSI has a different purpose and is far more accurate.

[silversaver]

yes i have occasionally. i actually asked the Project mgr about this report when we turned on our system because the total annual "expected" per Locus says 17,011 and is different from the initial proposal's 18,200 annual kwh. he said Locus automatically uses various calculations about the system size and orientation and location to calculate, however, it's not the same as their metric on the proposal and to not pay too much attention to either since they are both typically much lower than what customers will see.

For Dec 2013, expected was 943. Actual was 1256.

For Jan 2014, expected is 1027. Actual thru right NOW is 910, with 12 more full days to go this month.


i would not be surprised to break 20,000 by the one year anniversary (assuming we can keep them relatively clean and get some much needed rain)

The expected value were exat same number from CSI calculater

http://www.csi-epbb.com/default.aspx

Screenshot_2014-01-20-23-09-53.jpgScreenshot_2014-01-18-19-35-37.jpg

[bcroe]

Dec Production

For Dec 2013, expected was 943. Actual was 1256.

That shows the sun benefit of southern Cal. With all the storms & clouds, managed
1270 in NW IL in Dec, but a lot more panels. But, I guess that is the plan. Bruce Roe

[silversaver]

yes i have occasionally. i actually asked the Project mgr about this report when we turned on our system because the total annual "expected" per Locus says 17,011 and is different from the initial proposal's 18,200 annual kwh. he said Locus automatically uses various calculations about the system size and orientation and location to calculate, however, it's not the same as their metric on the proposal and to not pay too much attention to either since they are both typically much lower than what customers will see.

For Dec 2013, expected was 943. Actual was 1256.

For Jan 2014, expected is 1027. Actual thru right NOW is 910, with 12 more full days to go this month.


i would not be surprised to break 20,000 by the one year anniversary (assuming we can keep them relatively clean and get some much needed rain)

Must be real ncie to see that kind of production South facing arrays rocks!!!

[bando]

Bando,

Have you using the "report" feature on Locus monitoring? Click on "reports", then "Generated vs. Expected". You'll get this screen.

yes i have occasionally. i actually asked the Project mgr about this report when we turned on our system because the total annual "expected" per Locus says 17,011 and is different from the initial proposal's 18,200 annual kwh. he said Locus automatically uses various calculations about the system size and orientation and location to calculate, however, it's not the same as their metric on the proposal and to not pay too much attention to either since they are both typically much lower than what customers will see.

For Dec 2013, expected was 943. Actual was 1256.

For Jan 2014, expected is 1027. Actual thru right NOW is 910, with 12 more full days to go this month.


i would not be surprised to break 20,000 by the one year anniversary (assuming we can keep them relatively clean and get some much needed rain)

[J.P.M.]

Yes, that's why I'm here. I'm glad I got the great deal on Bosch discontinued panels and the performance seems par with SunPower (older 225W panel). Again, you got what you pay for but I'm just happen with my solar system after months of research

I've found you get what you pay for or less.

[silversaver]

Pretty much my point. S.P.'s great stuff, usually overkill and overpriced for what most people need. What I presented is very similar to what I've been observing/recording since getting involved w/my HOA and more than a few cooperative neighbors who have let me see how their systems are doing. I consider that stuff confidential but since this data was already published by Bando and mine is do w/what I please, I thought it may be good info to share. Still anecdotal however.

Yes, that's why I'm here. I'm glad I got the great deal on Bosch discontinued panels and the performance seems par with SunPower (older 225W panel). Again, you got what you pay for but I'm just happen with my solar system after months of research

[J.P.M.]

Performance wise, I really don't see any evidence that SP will out performance other makes, maybe small margin. Durability isn't something easy to accommodate.

Pretty much my point. S.P.'s great stuff, usually overkill and overpriced for what most people need. What I presented is very similar to what I've been observing/recording since getting involved w/my HOA and more than a few cooperative neighbors who have let me see how their systems are doing. I consider that stuff confidential but since this data was already published by Bando and mine is do w/what I please, I thought it may be good info to share. Still anecdotal however.

[silversaver]

Further to all this cleaning stuff and not directly related - I JUST HAPPENED TO NOTICE:

1.) Bando's output seems to be a somewhat constant multiple of J.P.M.'s (mine), at least on clear days, something like 2.1 times J.P.M.'s, +/- a bit, at least for 3 consecutive, mostly clear days, with nearly identical irradiance.

2.) Bando has an 11.76 kW system, non Sunpower.
J.P.M. has a 5.32 kW system, Sunpower.
therefore,Bando's size is 2.21 times J.P.M.'s

3.) Bando has split array with 2 off south orientations.
J.P.M has 1 array 195 az., 18.5 deg. tilt.
Looks like both have some late afternoon winter shading.

4.) I'd suggest from the above if Bando's orientation were the same as J.P.M.'s, that Bando's output per installed kW might be about the same as J.P.M.'s.

Perhaps this is anecdotal, but it seems to lend some support to my opinion that any well made system using decent panels will probably perform close to or about as well as a Sunpower system, probably for a lot less money.

I maintain that Sunpower's good stuff and perhaps necessary if space constrained, but if not perhaps not as cost effective by far when compared to other quality systems that will likely last as long or longer than the owner will be in the house.

I'm just sayin' ya' know ??

Performance wise, I really don't see any evidence that SP will out performance other makes, maybe small margin. Durability isn't something easy to accommodate.

[silversaver]

Bando,

Have you using the "report" feature on Locus monitoring? Click on "reports", then "Generated vs. Expected". You'll get this screen.

[J.P.M.]

yes that may well be the case with us since we are likely to overproduce. but a 5% reduction for us would be almost 1000kwh which is significant. our tier 1 starts at 15c and tier 4 is 38c.

hosing off seems to do the trick and gets us 4-5% more output if it hasn't rained in a while (which it hasn't in a few weeks - we haven't had a drop!)

we are planning on getting some pressure washing and windows cleaned soon and will probably ask them to clean the panels even though they are pretty new. it's more to see how the performance varies and give us a good idea of output loss on squeaky clean vs. lightly dust covered vs. caked-on dirt/dust. if we do this i will be sure to keep before/after readings and report back here. of course we have to make sure we keep track of the weather on those days too since a cloudy day reduces output A LOT.

my gut feeling just on what we had from the very beginning to now is 10% loss for "very dirty" and 5% on "light dust cover".

Bando: Check your P.M.'s

[bando]

I'll have to go find the research and analysis and was done on panel cleaning but I believe it was on the order of 1% or less difference on production numbers in the long run. I definitely don't plan on hiring someone to clean the panels as it just extends the ROI time frame but if there's excessive ashes, and no rain in sight, I may be inclined to hop on the roof with a hose. But so far from what I can tell, my max output hasn't changed much over the past couple of weeks. 34-36kWh per day for the high output days. Im not going to sweat even 100-200kWh difference in a year. That would be around $13-26/yr.

yes that may well be the case with us since we are likely to overproduce. but a 5% reduction for us would be almost 1000kwh which is significant. our tier 1 starts at 15c and tier 4 is 38c.

hosing off seems to do the trick and gets us 4-5% more output if it hasn't rained in a while (which it hasn't in a few weeks - we haven't had a drop!)

we are planning on getting some pressure washing and windows cleaned soon and will probably ask them to clean the panels even though they are pretty new. it's more to see how the performance varies and give us a good idea of output loss on squeaky clean vs. lightly dust covered vs. caked-on dirt/dust. if we do this i will be sure to keep before/after readings and report back here. of course we have to make sure we keep track of the weather on those days too since a cloudy day reduces output A LOT.

my gut feeling just on what we had from the very beginning to now is 10% loss for "very dirty" and 5% on "light dust cover".

[Volusiano]

gpg, it is normal in OC. That's also why we need water softener. Be sure you use good ones with high flow distributor and 10% crosslink.

I'm not sure what high flow distributor and 10% crosslink means for a water softener. Mine is a pretty generic Sears water softener. It seems to do the job OK. The softened water feels soft and slippery on the skin, and the detergent seems to work effectively. Whenever I travel and shower at a hotel with hard water, I can tell the difference right away.

Regarding the shower door, if you wipe it down clean regularly, you won't have hard mineral stains accumulated on it, of course. In my case, I was lazy and just let it build up over the years, so that's why it became very hard to clean after a while. Now that I realize how hard it is to clean the build up, I've begun to wipe it down regularly and don't have hard-to-clean stain spots on it anymore.

But since I don't want to go up on my roof often to wipe down my solar panels regularly like I can with the shower door, I won't personally want to spray my panels down with regular city water or even soft water and let it dry by itself. I would want to either squeezee it dry, or rinse it with pure water before I let it dry by itself.

[silversaver]

Is that in grains per gallon, or is that the parts per million TDS (total dissolved solid) reading?

If it is grains per gallon, that's actually pretty hard. My city is about 20 grains per gallon.

If it's parts per million TDS reading, that's really low. Anything below 10 ppm TDS can probably be considered pure enough for cleaning purposes without leaving stain spots behind when dried up. My TDS reading is around 700-800 ppm, regardless of whether this is coming straight from the city, or through my water softener.

gpg, it is normal in OC. That's also why we need water softener. Be sure you use good ones with high flow distributor and 10% crosslink.