Costco REC SunRun

[room7]

Here is the information I have, let me know if you need more info to provide better response. Im a noob at this so please be kind

Locatoin: Inland Empire, CA (So. Cal Desert)
Seller: REC (Through Costco)
Producer: SunRun
Upfront payment: $31,734
Year 1 output: 16,404 kWhs
Cost per kWh: $0.102
Terms: 20year (insured/monitoring included); option to purchase at FMV
Panel: The salesman told me he would install a Australian panel (he said there is also 2 other Chinese panels, if all things are the same I would rather Australian then a Chinese product)
Inverter: I dont know; is this something I should ask?
Current SEC Bill: ~$3500/yr for past 5 years

Is this a good deal? What else should I ask before signing? suggestions?

[Naptown]

The real number to compare is the cost per watt nameplate DC
You gave output numbers

[room7]

The real number to compare is the cost per watt nameplate DC
You gave output numbers

when I searched the contract for "DC" all I found was the following:

System Specifications
Premium 10.00 kW (DC) Yingli Energy
(China) system
System is estimated to produce 16,404kWh
of solar energy in Year 1
System will offset 99% of your electricity
usage with solar power

If this is not it, sorry but I don't understand what you are asking for

[Naptown]

That's the number I was looking for.
You can probably do better with another vendor. The cost before incentives in this case is just over 3.00 a watt. On systems of this size you should probably be looking in the 3.50 a watt range given the same specs.
Yingli is a Chinese manufacturer but tier ones among quality stuff.
A cash deal that would be equal to the lease as you would get the 30% federal credit you could add almost 50% to the lease price and the costs would be equal. ( actually multiply lease cost by 1.45 to come up with the same net cost as the lease and add any utility or state rebates to that.
Since you are in California you might also look at just shaving the top tiers where the larger expenses for electric are and getting a smaller system.

[room7]

That's the number I was looking for.
You can probably do better with another vendor. The cost before incentives in this case is just over 3.00 a watt. On systems of this size you should probably be looking in the 3.50 a watt range given the same specs.
Yingli is a Chinese manufacturer but tier ones among quality stuff.
A cash deal that would be equal to the lease as you would get the 30% federal credit you could add almost 50% to the lease price and the costs would be equal. ( actually multiply lease cost by 1.45 to come up with the same net cost as the lease and add any utility or state rebates to that.
Since you are in California you might also look at just shaving the top tiers where the larger expenses for electric are and getting a smaller system.

Thanks for the info, from what I understand in the contract if i buy outright I wouldnt get the monitoring or warranty and would have to pay at the end for the removal. The salesman told us it would cost around $8k additional if we wanted to buy outright and get theses services.

What equation did you use to get to the "3.00 a Watt"?

I dont think a smaller system is a solution for us. We are planning on purchasing electric cars in the future as well so our usage would only increase.

[Naptown]

You could still have monitoring but you are correct the 20 year warranty you would not have. Best case 10 from a reputable dealer.
If you pirchased why would you have it removed? It's yours and will produce long after 20 years is up.
The equation I used is cost / DC watts
In your case it came out about $3.17 a watt.
If you purchase and therefore can claim the 30% credit the purchase cost can be much higher ( about 45% higher ) to land you at the same cost as the lease.
This deal doesn't seem that great and you should shop and you can so better.

[silversaver]

You should be able to find a 10kW DC solar system for $35,000 or less. You can claim your 30% Federal incentive that will put your net cost $24,500. Why would you pay $31k to "lease" than own? Just because lease company give you 20 years warranty? If you think pre-paid lease make sense, do it.

[room7]

You could still have monitoring but you are correct the 20 year warranty you would not have. Best case 10 from a reputable dealer.
If you pirchased why would you have it removed? It's yours and will produce long after 20 years is up.
The equation I used is cost / DC watts
In your case it came out about $3.17 a watt.
If you purchase and therefore can claim the 30% credit the purchase cost can be much higher ( about 45% higher ) to land you at the same cost as the lease.
This deal doesn't seem that great and you should shop and you can so better.

You said I should be looking for something around $3.5 a watt? wouldnt lower be better? if costs went down to $1...it would be $.00001 a watt, wouldnt that be good?

[silversaver]

You said I should be looking for something around $3.5 a watt? wouldnt lower be better? if costs went down to $1...it would be $.00001 a watt, wouldnt that be good?

call google says that number is a scam?, they are offering free solar.

[Beachnut]

Here is the information I have, let me know if you need more info to provide better response. Im a noob at this so please be kind

Locatoin: Inland Empire, CA (So. Cal Desert)
Seller: REC (Through Costco)
Producer: SunRun
Upfront payment: $31,734
Year 1 output: 16,404 kWhs
Cost per kWh: $0.102
Terms: 20year (insured/monitoring included); option to purchase at FMV
Panel: The salesman told me he would install a Australian panel (he said there is also 2 other Chinese panels, if all things are the same I would rather Australian then a Chinese product)
Inverter: I dont know; is this something I should ask?
Current SEC Bill: ~$3500/yr for past 5 years

Is this a good deal? What else should I ask before signing? suggestions?

We just signed with Rec Solar & Sunrun after a month of research and comparing 3 other bids. My biggest reason for going pre-paid Sunrun lease was the warranty for 20 years Vs. the potential of "whichever" panel or inverter manufacturer going out of business in way less time. SO many have gone belly up in the last few years! Don't let it scare you away from solar, but do consider it in evaluating all out purchase and manufacturer warranty Vs. pre-paid Sunrun lease.

http://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/Rest-in-Peace-The-List-of-Deceased-Solar-Companies

Yes, Sunrun could go belly up to, but not likely, until the near 20 year mark when these systems they own need to start coming off, or be bought at FMV. (It seems the highest solar system failure is the inverter, costing around $2K, and lasting about 12 years on average before needing replacement). My 2nd highest reason for going Sunrun is my roof will need replacing after 20 years, (its 8 years old now), and either way, the panels would have to come off to replace my roof. This way, THEY get to pay to remove them, not me. 3rd highest reason, locking in a very low power price, Vs. facing inflation. PG&E has near tripled in price over the last 30 years as I have a 1984 PG&E bill, showing the lowest tier was at .05 cents per kwh Vs. today, it is .13 cents for lowest tier.

Your system costs seem high though! We do not use that much power, so we are getting just a smaller 3.06 kwh system, or 12 panels. Yet, we will be paying .097 cents per kwh, and our cost / watt is at very good $2.639. You can see the discussion on how to figure cost per watt on my thread here:

http://www.solarpaneltalk.com/showthread.php?12782-How-do-you-calculate-cost-per-watt-Is-this-a-good-deal-systeml

I am also surprised your Rec solar dealer is not using the Rec panels?? We are getting the REC 250-PE, which I believe were said to be made in Singapore out of "mostly US parts"...

http://www.recgroup.com/Documents/Downloadcenter/Solar%20product%20downloads/Solar%20Product%20Datasheets/REC%20PE%20Series%20ENG.pdf

I would get more bids, then negotiate with your Rec dealer some more... Try to get the lowest cost per watt out of your installer. Oh, do read the lease agreements as there are some real BAD ones out their. Sunrun is complicated, but seemed the best of the bunch, by far!!

[silversaver]

We just signed with Rec Solar & Sunrun after a month of research and comparing 3 other bids. My biggest reason for going pre-paid Sunrun lease was the warranty for 20 years Vs. the potential of "whichever" panel or inverter manufacturer going out of business in way less time. SO many have gone belly up in the last few years! Don't let it scare you away from solar, but do consider it in evaluating all out purchase and manufacturer warranty Vs. pre-paid Sunrun lease.

http://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/Rest-in-Peace-The-List-of-Deceased-Solar-Companies

Yes, Sunrun could go belly up to, but not likely, until the near 20 year mark when these systems they own need to start coming off, or be bought at FMV. (It seems the highest solar system failure is the inverter, costing around $2K, and lasting about 12 years on average before needing replacement). My 2nd highest reason for going Sunrun is my roof will need replacing after 20 years, (its 8 years old now), and either way, the panels would have to come off to replace my roof. This way, THEY get to pay to remove them, not me. 3rd highest reason, locking in a very low power price, Vs. facing inflation. PG&E has near tripled in price over the last 30 years as I have a 1984 PG&E bill, showing the lowest tier was at .05 cents per kwh Vs. today, it is .13 cents for lowest tier.

Your system costs seem high though! We do not use that much power, so we are getting just a smaller 3.06 kwh system, or 12 panels. Yet, we will be paying .097 cents per kwh, and our cost / watt is at very good $2.639. You can see the discussion on how to figure cost per watt on my thread here:

http://www.solarpaneltalk.com/showthread.php?12782-How-do-you-calculate-cost-per-watt-Is-this-a-good-deal-systeml

I am also surprised your Rec solar dealer is not using the Rec panels?? We are getting the REC 250-PE, which I believe were said to be made in Singapore out of "mostly US parts"...

http://www.recgroup.com/Documents/Downloadcenter/Solar%20product%20downloads/Solar%20Product%20Datasheets/REC%20PE%20Series%20ENG.pdf

I would get more bids, then negotiate with your Rec dealer some more... Try to get the lowest cost per watt out of your installer. Oh, do read the lease agreements as there are some real BAD ones out their. Sunrun is complicated, but seemed the best of the bunch, by far!!

An Average 3kW system cost around $12,000 and after CSI and Fed incentive net about $8k. If you choose good solar panels will last 25+ years and they aren't easy to break especially in Socal with nice weather here. If you choose SMA inverter, the 20 years premium (cover labor) extended warranty will cost you $625 (For Fronius, $540). If you roll that to the total cost lets say $8,500 after incentive. Most of installers have referral program around $500, but you got $700, After all, you have manage to get the pre-paid worry free lease for $7378. You save about $600 to $700 over all, good job!

[room7]

I got them down to 29600 for a 9.95Kwh System with REC 255 panels. Good deal? If not what number should I ask for?

[room7]

I got them down to 29600 for a 9.95Kwh System with REC 255 panels. Good deal? If not what number should I ask for?

The inverters are Power-one pvi 4.2 outs and Power-one pvi 3.6

[Beachnut]

If you are saying your paying $29600.00 for a 9.95kwh system that would be $2.974 per kwh price. Is that $29600.00 before incentives (tax rebates, & referral rebates)? If it is,, your doing better than I did at $3.96 pre tax / pre referral rebate price. (My post tax incentive / referral rebate price is $2.41 per kwh). I wish they would start a topic / category for "What did you pay per kwh for your system" so we all could see what others are paying, in various regions. I am sure it varies state to state, region to region, but it would sure give everyone a target to shoot for. I am sure it would not make contractors too happy though!

I did get a lower cost bid, but it was from Solar City, and I did not like there pre-paid lease contract wording, and they were not a "local" contractor. You really have to insure your getting quality, not just a cheap price, as sometimes going "cheap" bite's ya back in problems later on, or in installation. Do look at Yelp, Google, and BBB reviews also.

Disclaimer,, I am for sure, no expert in this. I just did my homework, as everyone should do, and these are just the personal opinions I have formed after doing that.

[room7]

If you are saying your paying $29600.00 for a 9.95kwh system that would be $2.974 per kwh price. Is that $29600.00 before incentives (tax rebates, & referral rebates)? If it is,, your doing better than I did at $3.96 pre tax / pre referral rebate price. (My post tax incentive / referral rebate price is $2.41 per kwh). I wish they would start a topic / category for "What did you pay per kwh for your system" so we all could see what others are paying, in various regions. I am sure it varies state to state, region to region, but it would sure give everyone a target to shoot for. I am sure it would not make contractors too happy though!

I did get a lower cost bid, but it was from Solar City, and I did not like there pre-paid lease contract wording, and they were not a "local" contractor. You really have to insure your getting quality, not just a cheap price, as sometimes going "cheap" bite's ya back in problems later on, or in installation. Do look at Yelp, Google, and BBB reviews also.

Disclaimer,, I am for sure, no expert in this. I just did my homework, as everyone should do, and these are just the personal opinions I have formed after doing that.

no incentives, it is a prepaid lease. What incentives would I qualify for?