Want to DIY a 6000w system - Where to start? Parts list?

[Sunking]

You might want to listen to people who do it for a living and have experience. They know a lot of things DIY are clueless about.

Some jurisdictions may or may not allow a homeowner to do their own install. If they do you still have to pull a permit an dpass inspections. To pass means you need to know a whole lot about electrical and building codes. In addition if you live in an area with snow you will likely have to have a structural engineer evaluate the structure and sign off on it. In addition when you apply for the permit you will have to submit a Material list, and engineered drawings with all the calculations. If those are required you as a DIY do not even get to go pass GO. There is a lot more to it than you think there is.

So go for it and learn and them comeback and tell us how it went. Oh did I mention the utility has a whole list of requirements to be met too.

[Expat]

Perhaps you should "ask" and "pay" your friend to install a 6kW solar system for you, it will be much cheaper than what you can get here. Don't waste anytime here on the forum because you will not get anything lower than what your friend got. You can mark my words for it.

Men are not less handy, because we can make right judgements. With all the time and risk it takes, I can make more money elsewhere and let the right poeple doing the job for me. I recently got a deal for a 6.63kW DC system $18,799 turn key service.

I must have stumbled onto the wrong forum. Is this a vender/professional installer forum? If so, I can see why there is such a resistance. Honestly, this is the 1st time in the many years I've been on various forums that I have been met with such anti-DIY. Maybe the solar crowd is a different type? Shrug.

What do you mean by "What you can get here" and "You shouldn't waste your time here"? I came here with the hopes of receiving some help putting a parts list together and perhaps the names of some reputable parts venders. It's become evident that I came to the wrong place for that info. Anyone have a suggestion on a forum that is geared towards DIY'ers and more friendly to non- solar panel install professionals?

I suppose we all have an idea of what we are worth, so thats a fair point. However, I prefer to do things myself and my schedule allows for it. But, we can agree to disagree about men being less handy. These days, it seems the average guy couldn't change his own oil or spark plugs if it were required that he do so...so I can see why an install like this would seem so daunting. Thats not to take away from the technical requirements/abilities of this job - it's not exactly for someone who hasn't ever put on a pair of gloves...but, I can't find anything in this install that suggests it's beyond the capabilities of an experienced DIY'er.

[silversaver]

Perhaps I am just misreading your statement, but are you suggesting installing a kit will run about the same as ordering/having installed from a professional?

Here in the states, it's easily 20-30k+ (sometimes MUCH more) to have a system installed. In contrast, a friend of mine just installed a kit himself and has a little over $10k invested into it. If I'm not mistaken, his system is currently putting out right around 6,000w at peak daylight and averaging 1.7kWh.

Nothing I have seen regarding the install requires excellent skills, but I suppose that is subjective and depends on ones experience and comfort level. I spose these days men seem to be a lot less handy than in the past, eh? lol. Only outsourcing I'd need to do is to hook up to the existing electrical panel (that requires a licensed electrician by law).

Thanks for the links, I will check those out.

I've been looking at some kits and install manuals/videos the last couple hours, it seems fairly straight forward. I can't imagine it being any more technical than wiring a home. I may be uninformed with the components involved with a solar system, but it's not my 1st rodeo.

Thanks for the brand names and some pricing.

Are you familiar with SunPowerCorp?

These are the panels (well, 1/2 of them) that my friend is running:

http://us.sunpowercorp.com/cs/Satellite?blobcol=urldata&blobheadername1=Content-Type&blobheadername2=Content-Disposition&blobheadervalue1=application%2Fpdf&blobheadervalue2=inline%3B+filename%3Dsp_X21_335_345_ds_en_ltr_504828A_040513.pdf&blobkey=id&blobtable=MungoBlobs&blobwhere=1300286718354&ssbinary=true

The other 1/2 are LG I believe.

I must have stumbled onto the wrong forum. Is this a vender/professional installer forum? If so, I can see why there is such a resistance. Honestly, this is the 1st time in the many years I've been on various forums that I have been met with such anti-DIY. Maybe the solar crowd is a different type? Shrug.

What do you mean by "What you can get here" and "You shouldn't waste your time here"? I came here with the hopes of receiving some help putting a parts list together and perhaps the names of some reputable parts venders. It's become evident that I came to the wrong place for that info. Anyone have a suggestion on a forum that is geared towards DIY'ers and more friendly to non- solar panel install professionals?

I suppose we all have an idea of what we are worth, so thats a fair point. However, I prefer to do things myself and my schedule allows for it. But, we can agree to disagree about men being less handy. These days, it seems the average guy couldn't change his own oil or spark plugs if it were required that he do so...so I can see why an install like this would seem so daunting. Thats not to take away from the technical requirements/abilities of this job - it's not exactly for someone who hasn't ever put on a pair of gloves...but, I can't find anything in this install that suggests it's beyond the capabilities of an experienced DIY'er.

I like to change the oil on my Ducati 1098. What kind of filter and oil do I need? Where can I buy it? What kind of tools do I need? When I see these type of questions, I'll suggest them a good place to service the bike instead because I have good heart.

If you have a friend already installed a 6kw system with little over $10K spent. Don't you think he is the best person to ask from? If I have a friend who can self install/DIY a 6kw system with cost of little over $10k, I'll not even bother to spend time here. I'll buy him lots beers and get the job done.

Your friend's solar system consist of SunPower and LG panels. Do you know that Sunpower panels only offer to direct installers? If your friend can get the sunpower panel, I'm sure he is either in solar or related business. For a 6kW system using SunPower and LG panels for little over 10k installed, I don't think anyone here can help you to get better deal than that. I cannot find you a better place or panel than Sunpower. That is why I said don't waste your time here.

[russ]

Thats not to take away from the technical requirements/abilities of this job - it's not exactly for someone who hasn't ever put on a pair of gloves...but, I can't find anything in this install that suggests it's beyond the capabilities of an experienced DIY'er.

I have found it is usually cheaper and certainly easier to end up with a better result to pay a reasonable fee to professional installers.

[Kieran]

Yikes. I too just found this forum and was hoping to get some DIY wisdom/advice. I guess I came to the wrong place. Did anyone on this forum DIY their PV system?
Here's a system for about $10k:
link removed
Plus about $2500 for an Iron Ridge SGA ground mount system, plus maybe another couple-few grand for unknown/unexpected/misc expenses (renting a power auger for example)... I figure I should be able to do this for around $15k. That's a little more than half of what most pro installers will charge in my area. Even if I'm way off, and it ends up costing closer to $20k, I'm still several grand ahead of the pro-install game.
KC

Please keep in mind our sponsor, Solar City, is in the business - links to the competition are not allowed.

DIY is perfectly fine - the problem is that many advocating DIY are not aware of the work, type of work or the formalities and restrictions involved.

[SunEagle]

I must have stumbled onto the wrong forum. Is this a vender/professional installer forum? If so, I can see why there is such a resistance. Honestly, this is the 1st time in the many years I've been on various forums that I have been met with such anti-DIY. Maybe the solar crowd is a different type? Shrug.

What do you mean by "What you can get here" and "You shouldn't waste your time here"? I came here with the hopes of receiving some help putting a parts list together and perhaps the names of some reputable parts venders. It's become evident that I came to the wrong place for that info. Anyone have a suggestion on a forum that is geared towards DIY'ers and more friendly to non- solar panel install professionals?

I suppose we all have an idea of what we are worth, so thats a fair point. However, I prefer to do things myself and my schedule allows for it. But, we can agree to disagree about men being less handy. These days, it seems the average guy couldn't change his own oil or spark plugs if it were required that he do so...so I can see why an install like this would seem so daunting. Thats not to take away from the technical requirements/abilities of this job - it's not exactly for someone who hasn't ever put on a pair of gloves...but, I can't find anything in this install that suggests it's beyond the capabilities of an experienced DIY'er.

I am still surprised by someone that is intelligent that he won't take the simple advise of going back to your friend with his $10k, 6000 watt system (~$1.75/watt) and then duplicate it. Getting a DIY system for under $2/watt is pretty good and will be cheaper then having a professional company install it even after tax credits.

Your friend has got what you want. Go duplicate it. Or maybe your friend is blowing smoke or so are you.

[Wy_White_Wolf]

Expat-

Have you looked here

http://www.builditsolar.com/Projects/PV/pv.htm#Grid

First thing to check with is the PoCo to learn the net meter and interconnection agreement. Then find out if the you local regulations will allow you to do the work yourself. Some areas allow it some don't.

WWW

[Wy_White_Wolf]

...If I'm not mistaken, his system is currently putting out right around 6,000w at peak daylight and averaging 1.7kWh...

I believe you would have to be mistaken. A 6K system should average @24KWh a day over the year (depending on location). If all he is getting is 1.7KWh then something is terribly wrong.

WWW

[Robert1234]

First thing to check with is the PoCo to learn the net meter and interconnection agreement. Then find out if the you local regulations will allow you to do the work yourself.

WWW

Best DIY advice - period!!

[Bandwala]

Check city permitting

There is no question that if you are competent you will come out significantly ahead on the DIY vs using the installers. That being said you have to see how your city is predisposed to this kind of thing. Ultimately if the city requires licensed contractors for the job then you are out of luck. So either you have to go to the mat with them or just use a installer.

There is simply no doubt that the installers pad their own pocket with the rebates that were destined to be yours as the owner. Quote upon quote on this site shows how the solar syndicate is actually ruining clean power for the masses. A 4KW system from an online retailer complete system including rails etc runs 10K for American made panels. This same system runs 23k with a professional installer. You do get 30% back but still that is like paying 6K for the install. Insane. Start writing your congressman.

Now if you lack any skills and know enough to be dangerous I suggest swallowing your pride and going for pro help. Electrocution, fire hazard, falling off the roof etc....puts it in perspective.

[Sunking]

T you have to see how your city is predisposed to this kind of thing. Ultimately if the city requires licensed contractors for the job then you are out of luck. So either you have to go to the mat with them or just use a installer.

You cannot win that fight. If your local jurisdiction requires a contractor you can bet a Union is invloved and there is no way they will let you take food out of their mouth.

[Jeffw1]

I take it your friends system is not Grid-tied? Over here for a grid-tied system it “Must” be installed by an MCS installer, using MCS equipment.

Microgeneration Certification Scheme

Well then again at that cost he can’t have batteries, so it would appear it may be. It does sounds like he may be in the business, so yes ask him, that’s sound advice.

I’m going self build and yes the roof would need checked as I posted awhile back about that concern of mine. Also for insurance purposes the final connection to the Consumer Unit and the ATS for the genset needs to be by a qualified electrician.

Also for insurance, all wiring now must be accomplished by somebody holding a Part P certificate and conforming to Building Regulations.

Without that, this is all you can do in the UK on the electrical side.

The following types of work are non-notifiable:

• Replacing accessories such as socket-outlets, control switches and ceiling roses
• Replacing the cable for a single circuit only, where damaged, for example, by fire, rodent or impact (1)
• Re-fixing or replacing the enclosures of existing installation components (2)
• Providing mechanical protection to existing fixed installations (3)
• Installing or upgrading main or supplementary equipotential bonding (4)
• Work that is not in a kitchen or special location and does not involve a special installation (5) and consists of:
- adding lighting points (light fittings and switches) to an existing circuit (6)
- adding socket-outlets and fused spurs to an existing ring or radial circuit (6)

So add around £1,000+ for the Structural survey, Consumer Unit connections, a Part P certificate to install by doing 99% of the remaining work yourself.

Omit these and push ahead, and your insurance if anything happens (personal if you injure yourself or damage to your home) and they will rub their money grubbing hands together and tell you or your spouse to take a hike.

I do agree the mark-ups are ridiculous and the MCS over here is nothing more than a way to print money, and with the new drop in paybacks (our Feed-in-Tariff with NO incentives) only an idiot would have solar installed when they don’t need to.

The Regulations (short list)

The Building Regulations 2000 are split into 14 parts A-P, depending on the nature of the PV installation the following parts may be applicable and should be addressed early at the system design stage:
Approved Document P - Electrical Safety (Domestic)

• Correct usage, sizing and positioning of cables
• Labelling and warning signs
• Adequate earthing and bonding (if required)
• Protection from damage, dust, water and people (esp fingers) of electrical equipment and cables.
• Test certificates, manuals and safety instructions
• Isolation arrangements (how to disconnect parts or all of the system)
• Correct selection and use of protective devices such as RCDs, fuses and isolators

EDIT: I know this is UK based information, but based on my readings, your laws and regulations appear to be just as tight as our own.

[Naptown]

What makes everyone think the installing contractors are making a killing?
This never ceases to amaze me that some people will not allow a contractor to make money or somehow think it is immoral if they do.
Do they expect them to install it and not make something? Or simply work for what you feel is a minimal hourly wage?
After a list of costs that are required that is as long as your arm that need to be accounted for when doing this professionally as a legitimate business the profit before taxes in a good year run about 7%
One last point
Everyone wants their free estimate.
What do you think it costs the contractor to drive out to your house spend a couple of hours with you and a couple of hours more producing that free estimate. Would $100 be a fair number?
Now consider that only one out of 5 actually buy a system.
Who do you think pays for the other 4.
But it is an expense that has to be made to stay in business.

[Jeffw1]

I do or did free estimates it’s part of the job, different field but still. (actually most builders, plumbers, electricians etc do, so you point is???) Cost to travel back and forwards and gas, insurance is negligible and does not justify their mark-ups. NO matter how you paint it.

When somebody is making $10,000+ profit for a few days work (i.e manual labour as this is all it really is), that’s a piss take that only fools sign up for.

Most people I see want a ROI investment and it’s over 10-20 years in solar (Idiots)

Put that money into a Term Deposit 9% 10% you can’t touch for 1 -> 5 years and you’ll see a better return AND you still have your initial capital, in solar you don’t.

So average system I see $20,000 Grid Tied… that’s $1,800 per year Term Deposit interest, after five years you also get your capital back and the interest…THAT is ROI….can you get that in solar???????????? HELL NO……

I’m sorry I appreciate people need to make a living etc., I don’t knock that, but the mark-ups and ROI is a god damn joke…….It’s a license to print money and rip people off in my eyes.

[Sunking]

What makes everyone think the installing contractors are making a killing?

The same people who protest Wall Street, complain about Walmart wages, then go there and shop because they have the lowest prices. People think they are entitled, when the only thing they are entitled to is a chance if they work at it.