Blue Frog Microinverters vs Enphase

[solar pete]

I am a solar consultant in Washington State. Ibhave sold more Blue Frog systems than Solectria line inverter systems. I would say 75% Blue Frog. 25% Solectria. None of my customers went with out of state hardware. Keep in mind that if you install 34 modules, that equals 17 Blue Frogs (1 for every 2 modules). So, the failure rate will be much more obvious on Blue Frogs than a line inverter where you get only one per system usually. I think we are seeing 1 Blue Frog fail per 100 inverters. But, it is no big deal. Blue Frog pays us the labor to go swap it out. It happens fast. No problem...and the monitoring system is awesome. More Blue Frogs are being sold in Australia than Washington. No comparison. Big company. It isn't going to die. The markup on BF's is so high they can afford a few failures per 100 without cutting into their profits. I prefer Blue Frogs myself. They are so much more flexible with the way they handle shade and clouds than line inverters or even optimizer based systems. We are quoting people less than 5 year payback periods more often than not. With the 30% fed tax credit, $5000 per year from the state, and the savings on electricity, it all gets paid back very fast.

Hello Stevea and welcome to Solar Panel Talk, solar professionals are very welcome, just go by the rules. No self promotion or trawling for leads please.

[Stevea]

Blue Frog Micro inverters in Washington State

I am a solar consultant in Washington State. Ibhave sold more Blue Frog systems than Solectria line inverter systems. I would say 75% Blue Frog. 25% Solectria. None of my customers went with out of state hardware. Keep in mind that if you install 34 modules, that equals 17 Blue Frogs (1 for every 2 modules). So, the failure rate will be much more obvious on Blue Frogs than a line inverter where you get only one per system usually. I think we are seeing 1 Blue Frog fail per 100 inverters. But, it is no big deal. Blue Frog pays us the labor to go swap it out. It happens fast. No problem...and the monitoring system is awesome. More Blue Frogs are being sold in Australia than Washington. No comparison. Big company. It isn't going to die. The markup on BF's is so high they can afford a few failures per 100 without cutting into their profits. I prefer Blue Frogs myself. They are so much more flexible with the way they handle shade and clouds than line inverters or even optimizer based systems. We are quoting people less than 5 year payback periods more often than not. With the 30% fed tax credit, $5000 per year from the state, and the savings on electricity, it all gets paid back very fast.

[appleman]

CaseIGL what did you do?

I am also located in WA state, just South of Mount Vernon. I am also in the same boat you were. Enphase vs. Blue Frog. What did you end up installing? I am sure we have spoken to the same installers. I tried to PM you, but my post count is to low. Thanks, Brad

[FloridaSun]

Don't laugh too hard I saw a guy a while back in a 500+ series BMW do the through the window diagonal thing coming out of Home Despot.

yeah, I get a kick out of seeing things coming out of sunroofs also.

[

See. Improvisation at it's best (or worst). For me I will use my Tundra for them long things stuck through the back window into the cab.

But I do agree that even PVC pipe can and will mess up your dashboard if you don't tie down the pipe and stop too fast. Lucky I didn't break the wind shield.

I retired my pickup a few years ago after 239,000 miles. Just didn't use it nuff to justify the insurance required. haha, what worries me is the air bag going off.

[SunEagle]

Don't laugh too hard I saw a guy a while back in a 500+ series BMW do the through the window diagonal thing coming out of Home Despot.

See. Improvisation at it's best (or worst). For me I will use my Tundra for them long things stuck through the back window into the cab.

But I do agree that even PVC pipe can and will mess up your dashboard if you don't tie down the pipe and stop too fast. Lucky I didn't break the wind shield.

[Naptown]

ROFLMAO!! no way!
I can fold down front and back seats, get ten ft sections of PVC pipe in and still close the trunk (with no passenger). 12 foot lumber has to stick out the back and red flagged. More than 12'? never tried that
( caution, those who want to keep their dashboard in good condition should not try this, only good for old beater cars.)

Don't laugh too hard I saw a guy a while back in a 500+ series BMW do the through the window diagonal thing coming out of Home Despot.

[FloridaSun]

Thats easy. Roll down the front passenger window and the left rear window. Stick the that 12 ft piece of wood diagonal through both open windows. Then decide where to drive so you can make the big ass turns like a semi since you have to clear all them objects that get in the way of your lumber.

ROFLMAO!! no way!
I can fold down front and back seats, get ten ft sections of PVC pipe in and still close the trunk (with no passenger). 12 foot lumber has to stick out the back and red flagged. More than 12'? never tried that
( caution, those who want to keep their dashboard in good condition should not try this, only good for old beater cars.)

[SunEagle]

But some people do in the right circumstances. With only an acre here I stick to fruits and vegies. Growing my rice, oats or wheat would be too demanding. Having micro irrigation on battery timers I can ignore the vegies for weeks without worry. They're still there in good health (among the weeds). yeah, I'm a lazy gardener and have lots of stuff that grows like weeds, some doesn't even need replanting, reseeds it's self like my cherry tomatoes do.
I can see where you would have some difficulty growing a garden with your travels. Last time I went around the world was in 2008.
My ol 4 door chevy cavelier still gets near 30mpg and I use it like a truck to haul building supplies at times. Lumber over 12 ft long can get tricky tho.

Thats easy. Roll down the front passenger window and the left rear window. Stick the that 12 ft piece of wood diagonal through both open windows. Then decide where to drive so you can make the big ass turns like a semi since you have to clear all them objects that get in the way of your lumber.

[FloridaSun]

Grow your own garden and you are married to the garden - can't leave when you want. No one with a lick of brains grows their own grain in a garden plot.

A car - I have a Nissan Micra - 43 mpg.

But some people do in the right circumstances. With only an acre here I stick to fruits and vegies. Growing my rice, oats or wheat would be too demanding. Having micro irrigation on battery timers I can ignore the vegies for weeks without worry. They're still there in good health (among the weeds). yeah, I'm a lazy gardener and have lots of stuff that grows like weeds, some doesn't even need replanting, reseeds it's self like my cherry tomatoes do.
I can see where you would have some difficulty growing a garden with your travels. Last time I went around the world was in 2008.
My ol 4 door chevy cavelier still gets near 30mpg and I use it like a truck to haul building supplies at times. Lumber over 12 ft long can get tricky tho.

[russ]

Hey Russ,

Have you paid your electric bill for the next few upcoming months or years? We all are in debt to some large entity whether its the gas in our cars, water bills, or food at the store. It may not show up on a credit report but there is a cost to be alive and electricity is one of those costs for most folks. I hope no one out there is growing their own food because the big agribusinesses can do it cheaper. What stupid and moronic people would have the nerve to grow their own food when some billion dollar multinational corporation can do it for less. Solar ain't for everybody but it is for some folks. Mainly those who like to pay less in taxes and live more independently.

You are confusing expenses with debt. I have monthly expenses but zero debt. How does solar cut down on your taxes - at least in a meaningful amount. Solar makes one more independent? One can convince themselves of most anything they want I suppose.

Grow your own garden and you are married to the garden - can't leave when you want. No one with a lick of brains grows their own grain in a garden plot.

A car - I have a Nissan Micra - 43 mpg. No problem to buy a Mercedes sports model but initial and annual taxes here are high and the mileage sucks - 10$ per gallon gas with Diesel a bit cheaper. The Micra uses petrol as the premium for the CDI engine was excessive.

[Sunking]

Have you paid your electric bill for the next few upcoming months or years? We all are in debt to some large entity whether its the gas in our cars, water bills, or food at the store.

That is not debt, that is expense. If you have to take a loan or credit for those expenses you are in deep deep trouble.

[FloridaSun]

Hey Russ,

Have you paid your electric bill for the next few upcoming months or years? We all are in debt to some large entity whether its the gas in our cars, water bills, or food at the store. It may not show up on a credit report but there is a cost to be alive and electricity is one of those costs for most folks. I hope no one out there is growing their own food because the big agribusinesses can do it cheaper. What stupid and moronic people would have the nerve to grow their own food when some billion dollar multinational corporation can do it for less. Solar ain't for everybody but it is for some folks. Mainly those who like to pay less in taxes and live more independently.

Agribiz may be able to produce edible food like substance that most people survive on but growing your own is much healthier and cheaper. I'm one of those stupid moronic people that lives more independently, grow much of what I eat, only need to fill my car's gas tank every few months and have my less than $50 @ month grid electric bill covered for years.
City folks hooked on consumerism and dependency will always have a hard time believing in this concept. They will also be spending much more time at the doctor's office after eating all that factory food crap.
Time to go make another loaf of fresh bread.

[SunEagle]

Hey Russ,

Have you paid your electric bill for the next few upcoming months or years? We all are in debt to some large entity whether its the gas in our cars, water bills, or food at the store. It may not show up on a credit report but there is a cost to be alive and electricity is one of those costs for most folks. I hope no one out there is growing their own food because the big agribusinesses can do it cheaper. What stupid and moronic people would have the nerve to grow their own food when some billion dollar multinational corporation can do it for less. Solar ain't for everybody but it is for some folks. Mainly those who like to pay less in taxes and live more independently.

Being independent is one thing spending less by doing it yourself is another. If you can grow your own food for less then than getting it at the local store then you have saved money and are more independent.

Currently building your own Solar Panels may make you more independent but it will also cost you much more than buying from the manufacturer. It is your choice to determine how much more you want to spend to be independent or not.

It's the same as purchasing another small car the gets higher gas mileage then your older bigger car so you don't have to buy gas from that big corporation. Some people spend upwards of $20,000 for that new car but still keep the old one. Now you pay insurance for two cars along with some maintenance regardless of how much you drive either of them. All that additional expenses and the $20,000 would have gone to pay for a years of gas and maintenance on the one older car. Ya just have to do the math to determine if going independent really has a reasonable Return on Investment (ROI).

[SoCalsolar]

Hey Russ

Hey Russ,

Have you paid your electric bill for the next few upcoming months or years? We all are in debt to some large entity whether its the gas in our cars, water bills, or food at the store. It may not show up on a credit report but there is a cost to be alive and electricity is one of those costs for most folks. I hope no one out there is growing their own food because the big agribusinesses can do it cheaper. What stupid and moronic people would have the nerve to grow their own food when some billion dollar multinational corporation can do it for less. Solar ain't for everybody but it is for some folks. Mainly those who like to pay less in taxes and live more independently.

[russ]

Different strokes for different folks - everything I have is paid for - I hate owing anybody anything.

I just used the standard deratings - everyone has to adjust those for their own preferences. Also it is rare PV Watts will be correct for any given time period but over time the average will be quite close.

On another site a couple of years back some clown kept saying his system was exactly on with PV Watts - that meant he was BSing and probably didn't even have a system.