New Smart Panel sounds like a great system

[scrambler]

For me the reporting is most importantly about one thing, and it is monitoring for problems, and help diagnose when problems come up (and boy have I had some...)

Most homeowners don't monitor their system, and so they have no clue their system is not providing the expected return, unless it becomes catastrophic.
The other perverse effect from that is that installers are so use not to have to deal with problems, that when you come to them with evidence there is something wrong, they look at you like you are a pain in their butt.


Some of the side benefits are:
Keeping an eye on my overall consumption vs solar production vs PVwatt
Track my overall battery discharge to make sure I am in the SGIP requirement
Being able to use the app to verify if something is on that should or should not when I am not here.

[mjs020294]

Understood. All my data is also on a spreadsheet. Makes life a lot easier.

My point is, besides the esoteric goal of losing some independence, I don't see the need to spend a lot of money for tools and equipment when the same goals and information can be attained with simple equipment and simple arithmetic skills.

I see folks around here and elsewhere spending all kinds of money and time on equipment getting a lot of data of often questionable value and they don't know the difference between a kW and a kWh. Guess I'm out of touch and missing something.

Its much easier having 24/7 monitoring on 16+ circuits. Using simply equipment I would need to remove the panel cover, which can't be done without moving my car. Then it would take lots of trial and error and walking back and forth to trouble shoot; not to mention writing down data and entering into spreadsheets. The APP has history, reporting and filtering; practically impossible to replicate with simple tools.

it might not be for everyone, especially the older less tech savvy crowd, but smart panels and monitoring will be the future. All that collected data in the cloud will be very powerful once harnessed properly.

[J.P.M.]

Its much easier having 24/7 monitoring on 16+ circuits. Using simply equipment I would need to remove the panel cover, which can't be done without moving my car. Then it would take lots of trial and error and walking back and forth to trouble shoot; not to mention writing down data and entering into spreadsheets. The APP has history, reporting and filtering; practically impossible to replicate with simple tools.

it might not be for everyone, especially the older less tech savvy crowd, but smart panels and monitoring will be the future. All that collected data in the cloud will be very powerful once harnessed properly.

I agree with you that smart panels and monitoring are probably part of the future, but I question calling or implying that those who embrace such features at the expense of learning the basics as the tech savvy. I consider such folks quite the opposite.
Beginning around the early '90's when as an engineering supervisor - and always on the lookout for talent - I'd interview folks for engineering and design positions and had a ringside seat to observe the changes in attitude toward what was considered knowledge. For example, I'd question a candidate about how (s)he would approach a design challenge. If someone's response involved throwing software at it, the interview was quickly terminated. That type of response became more common over my engineering career in pretty much inverse proportion to the lack or loss of critical thinking skills as they relate to how engineers think and look at the world. Seems to me things are now at a point where it's more about buzzwords than analysis with folks quicker to adopt the latest marketing catchphrase than they are to actually try to understand what all the stuff they're google eyed about means or understand that most of it is of little use compared to the basics.

I'm glad I'm retired but sad to watch what seems more and more like the great and seemingly unstoppable dumbing of America.

[mjs020294]

I agree with you that smart panels and monitoring are probably part of the future, but I question calling or implying that those who embrace such features at the expense of learning the basics as the tech savvy. I consider such folks quite the opposite.
Beginning around the early '90's when as an engineering supervisor - and always on the lookout for talent - I'd interview folks for engineering and design positions and had a ringside seat to observe the changes in attitude toward what was considered knowledge. For example, I'd question a candidate about how (s)he would approach a design challenge. If someone's response involved throwing software at it, the interview was quickly terminated. That type of response became more common over my engineering career in pretty much inverse proportion to the lack or loss of critical thinking skills as they relate to how engineers think and look at the world. Seems to me things are now at a point where it's more about buzzwords than analysis with folks quicker to adopt the latest marketing catchphrase than they are to actually try to understand what all the stuff they're google eyed about means or understand that most of it is of little use compared to the basics.

I'm glad I'm retired but sad to watch what seems more and more like the great and seemingly unstoppable dumbing of America.

You do realize that one of the few areas America has excelled over the last 2-3 decades is technology. Older less tech savvy folks often struggle adapting to new technology. I see it with my father who incidentally was a very senior engineer for 45+ years. Although he would definitely see the benefits of Smart panels and technology in general he has problems navigating new technology.

There is massive value to a monitoring system capturing 1.8 million data points a day whether you're a novice or a highly qualified electrical engineer.

[Ampster]

I have an Emporia also. Compared to the Sense it is a better value. The Sense was never able to recognize many of my loads. I sold it on Ebay.

[mjs020294]

I have an Emporia also. Compared to the Sense it is a better value. The Sense was never able to recognize many of my loads. I sold it on Ebay.

Emporia is definitely competitively priced. Have you integrated into your solar?

[scrambler]

Emporia is definitely competitively priced. Have you integrated into your solar?

I have,
The only limitation today for hybrid system with a battery, is that the Software does not do bidirectional reporting on the 50A CTs. So when the current flows In the Inverter toi charge the battery of provide power to a critical load panel, it is reported as when the inverter sends current i to the grid.

This mean I have to massage the data a bit in Excel to get accurate reporting.

From what they said, the CTs themselves are bidirectional, and the Software needs to be updated. but it has been a year and I am still waiting.

The 200A CTs on the line to the Grid are reporting bidirectionally, so that part is good.

I have a writeup below
Great and inexpensive monitoring system and a problem to solve. - Solar Panels - Solar Panels Forum (solarpaneltalk.com)

[J.P.M.]

You do realize that one of the few areas America has excelled over the last 2-3 decades is technology. Older less tech savvy folks often struggle adapting to new technology. I see it with my father who incidentally was a very senior engineer for 45+ years. Although he would definitely see the benefits of Smart panels and technology in general he has problems navigating new technology.

There is massive value to a monitoring system capturing 1.8 million data points a day whether you're a novice or a highly qualified electrical engineer.

The value you write of may exist but my point is that such information is of little useful worth to those too ignorant to understand and differentiate what's important and what's not.

You have the last word.

[solardreamer]

Digging further, it actually looks like this is only a great system for tesla Powerwall / Gateway configuration.

At first, I saw on their website they had the option for a Transfer switch inside the panel but asking them more details about how the panel connects with regular Hybrid Inverter / battery system, they said they no longer support that option.

The way they configure regular hybrid inverter is by just connecting the Samrt panel to the Inverter critical load panel output.
If that is the case, then the Panel is ALWAYS limited by the Inverter critical Load output power (even when grid is up), and therefore you cannot actually move ALL the house load in there.

To allow the Smart panel to contain all House load (replace all panels), you would need a transfer switch so that when the grid is up, the Smart panel is connected directly to the grid, allowing enough power for all loads, and in an outage the transfer switch flips the Smart panel to the Inverter critical load output, with the Smart panel automatically managing which loads can be used to prevent overloading the inverter.

But as it stands, the biggest feature of the Smart panel is basically not usable on a regular Hybrid inverter setup.
Too bad....

It's definitely not for your typical house based on what I saw and learned at a show. Company told me it's mostly used in solar/home battery projects and it requires integration with the home battery (only Tesla and LG supported so far?). They claim to be working on supporting other systems but no firm info. It's pretty big but has little internal space for wiring so that's consistent with the installation complaints I have heard. It requires WiFi to provide any meaningful visibility and control. So, if you don't have backup power for your home WiFi and the panel then it's kinda of useless in blackouts. It's got a nice app for you to show off how much power your TV is using to your friends but is it worth $3500?

[scrambler]

Company told me it's mostly used in solar/home battery projects and it requires integration with the home battery (only Tesla and LG supported so far?).

Yet, they lack the key component to make it truly useful for such systems, except Tesla which uses a different logic with their gateway.

[solardreamer]

Yet, they lack the key component to make it truly useful for such systems, except Tesla which uses a different logic with their gateway.

Just the fact that it requires integration with home battery seems very limiting. The number of home battery installations is growing but still a tiny fraction of all houses.

[Ampster]

Emporia is definitely competitively priced. Have you integrated into your solar?

Yes, I have the Emporia measuring my solar and since it records data every minute the output is more useful short term than the Enlighten app from Enphase which seems to lag by up to a half hour. I am going to double up some of my circuits that share a neutral because most of them are not significant loads and I want to use the CTs on some loads that are more variable.

[mjs020294]

Yes, I have it measuring my solar and since it records data every minute the output is more useful short term than the Enlighten app from Enphase which seems to lag by up to a half hour. I am going to double up some of my circuits that share a neutral because most of them are not significant loads and I want to use the CTs on some loads that are more variable.

The notification and alerts are also very useful. Not only to monitor consumption but to highlight potential issues like a failing capacitor on your compressor.

[mjs020294]

The value you write of may exist but my point is that such information is of little useful worth to those too ignorant to understand and differentiate what's important and what's not.

You have the last word.

Anyone going to the effort of purchasing and installing an energy monitor is probably going to utilize the information. You don't have to any understanding of electrical systems or solar to have an active interest in energy conservation. So worst case scenario the energy monitor helps the user make some energy saving changes; best case they can utilize the integrated things like notifications to help diagnose potential issues.

[Ampster]

Anyone going to the effort of purchasing and installing an energy monitor is probably going to utilize the information. You don't have to any understanding of electrical systems or solar to have an active interest in energy conservation. So worst case scenario the energy monitor helps the user make some energy saving changes; best case they can utilize the integrated things like notifications to help diagnose potential issues.

I agree with your theory. Most of the "ignorant" people referred to in the earlier post are irrelevant to the topic at hand. I don't base any decisions on what ignorant people do or don't do. As a tool for optimal energy conservation I have found these type of energy monitoring devices very useful.