New Smart Panel sounds like a great system

[scrambler]

I just came across the New SPAN Smart panel, and in case you are not familiar with it, I thought I would bring it to your attention.

This would greatly simplify and improve the management of a battery system.
Basically, get rid of the Critical load panel (and transfer switch), move ALL loads in the smart panel, and connect the smart panel to the hybrid Inverter.
In an outage, the inverter will take over the smart panel, and the smart panel will automatically manage what loads can be used, giving you a superb interface to control that.

Sounds like a great system.

Span Smart Panel — Span® | A Smarter Electric Panel

Great review
This Smart Home Electric Panel Fixed My Tesla Powerwall - YouTube

[scrambler]

Digging further, it actually looks like this is only a great system for tesla Powerwall / Gateway configuration.

At first, I saw on their website they had the option for a Transfer switch inside the panel but asking them more details about how the panel connects with regular Hybrid Inverter / battery system, they said they no longer support that option.

The way they configure regular hybrid inverter is by just connecting the Samrt panel to the Inverter critical load panel output.
If that is the case, then the Panel is ALWAYS limited by the Inverter critical Load output power (even when grid is up), and therefore you cannot actually move ALL the house load in there.

To allow the Smart panel to contain all House load (replace all panels), you would need a transfer switch so that when the grid is up, the Smart panel is connected directly to the grid, allowing enough power for all loads, and in an outage the transfer switch flips the Smart panel to the Inverter critical load output, with the Smart panel automatically managing which loads can be used to prevent overloading the inverter.

But as it stands, the biggest feature of the Smart panel is basically not usable on a regular Hybrid inverter setup.
Too bad....

[Ampster]

............
The way they configure regular hybrid inverter is by just connecting the Samrt panel to the Inverter critical load panel output.
If that is the case, then the Panel is ALWAYS limited by the Inverter critical Load output power (even when grid is up), and therefore you cannot actually move ALL the house load in there.

I would guess it would depend on the hybrid inverter. The inverter in my Outback Skybox is limited to 5kW but both the grid connection (AC In) and the critical loads panel (AC Out) have 60 Amp breakers so in total that would be 14kW of capacity.

To allow the Smart panel to contain all House load (replace all panels), you would need a transfer switch so that when the grid is up, the Smart panel is connected directly to the grid, allowing enough power for all loads, and in an outage the transfer switch flips the Smart panel to the Inverter critical load output, with the Smart panel automatically managing which loads can be used to prevent overloading the inverter.

But as it stands, the biggest feature of the Smart panel is basically not usable on a regular Hybrid inverter setup.
Too bad....

Most hybrid inverters contain transfer switches so that is not an issue for those installations unless they have limited throughput. A transfer switch and other features are what define the term "hybrid", at least in my mind. I do not know if there is a commonly accepted feature set for hybrid inverters. Outback uses the term, "grid interactive" to describe the Skybox.
One of the selling points of the Smart Panels is because they can manage loads, the Smart Panel would eliminate the need to separate loads into critical loads and other loads. The Smart Panel can manage loads dynamically. I know Sol Ark is coming out with a larger hybid and their own smart panel so they are seeing this as a growing market. Outback has just announced a new grid interactive inverter with a larger capacity than the Skybox and some rumors say it will replace both the Radian and the Skybox.

[scrambler]

I am sure the situation will be different from inverter to inverter, but if the Panel is connected to the critical load port of the inverter you are limited to that port capacity.
From what you say about your Skybox, in that specific case that would be 60Amp, not enough to put all the house loads in the panel.

[Ampster]

I agree, and that is why I believe we will see a new crop of hybrid inverters with larger capacity. That will be both inverter capacity and pass through capacity. With the addition of a Smart Panel the homeowner does not have to make a permanent choice about what loads would be on which sub panel. The Smart Panel could be presumably programmed to connect all loads when the grid is up and shut off the larger loads when the grid is down to match remaining loads to the inverter capacity. Then if the homeowner wanted to use a large load like a clothes dryer, they could restrict some other loads to allow the dryer to run for a few hours.


If I recall correctly the new Sol Ark will have 200 Amp pass through capacity. I do not know what size their Smart Panel will have but presumably they would be close. Also communication between the Sol Ark hybrid and the Smart Panel would increase functionality of that as a System.

[soby]

$3,500 + installation.

Ouch.

[mjs020294]

$3,500 + installation.

Ouch.

Yes its price prohibitive at the moment. I am guessing the install would cost $2,000. Hopefully the price will drop and competition will enter the market.

I added a Emporia Smart Home Energy Monitor attached to 16 circuits and also added four of their smart plugs. Reading their literature it looks like they are planning on moving more towards Smart control of the circuits. The energy monitor I installed paid for itself twice over in the first day. It helped me identify a faulty UPS battery backup that was drawing 3KWh a day; an old LED strip that was pulling 300w and it was burnt out in several places plus I noticed my AC heat strip was kicking in during the morning warm up. Fixed all three issues and reduced our consumption by 7KWh a day. Best $150 I have spent in a while and I held off on buying it because I thought it was a luxury.

[scrambler]

I have an Emporia too and love it!
You cannot beat the functionality for the price.

[mjs020294]

I have an Emporia too and love it!
You cannot beat the functionality for the price.

Totally agree on the Emporia. I looked at units a few months ago and most were in the $300 range. Even at $150 I was slightly hesitant but it literally paid for itself inside 24 hours. Having the data and insight on your consumption is very empowering.

[heimdm]

I have Brultech green energy monitors. They monitor up to 32 channels each. They don't have a cool mobile app like Emporia.

[J.P.M.]

Totally agree on the Emporia. I looked at units a few months ago and most were in the $300 range. Even at $150 I was slightly hesitant but it literally paid for itself inside 24 hours. Having the data and insight on your consumption is very empowering.

Q: In what ways did it pay for itself ?i

[mjs020294]

Q: In what ways did it pay for itself ?i

It gives you the real time energy consumption in seconds, minutes, hours, days, weeks, months and years. So you can see exactly what each circuit you attach a sensor to is consuming. In my case the following were brought to my attention:

1. I noticed a 300w draw on a circuit that should have been drawing a much less. It turned out to be a LED strip light on a parcel shelf that was there when we bought the house. It was an old AC strip light and several sections had actually burnt out. Replacing the old strip with a new 30w strip will save around 270w six hours a day. Plus the old light was actually a fire risk. The new strip will use 1.6KWh less a day.
2. I noticed an unusual load on another circuit that covered two bedrooms and a living room. After a little trial and testing using one of their smart plugs I tracked it down to a UPS battery backup on my router and computers. It was drawing 200watts and was running 24/7. Removed it saving 4.8KWh a day.
3. During the early morning warm up I noticed the heat strip was kicking in. This was mainly because we have the house at 67f overnight and it switches to 70f around 7:00am. The thermostat switches the heat strip on if there is a 2f delta and heat pump doesn't start raising the temperature in 10-15 minutes. Altered our thermostat schedule to include two additional time zones raising the temperature to 68f and 69f before it calls for 70f. It takes the heat pump a little longer to raise the temperature but the heat strip draws 10KW so the net result is probably 2KWh a day in the colder months.

The three things above will probably reduce my bill be 6-7KWh a day over the course of the year. So 6KWh x 365 = 2,190KWh = $274 (12.5cents a unit). Easily covering the $149 I paid for the energy monitor.

[J.P.M.]

It gives you the real time energy consumption in seconds, minutes, hours, days, weeks, months and years. So you can see exactly what each circuit you attach a sensor to is consuming. In my case the following were brought to my attention:

1. I noticed a 300w draw on a circuit that should have been drawing a much less. It turned out to be a LED strip light on a parcel shelf that was there when we bought the house. It was an old AC strip light and several sections had actually burnt out. Replacing the old strip with a new 30w strip will save around 270w six hours a day. Plus the old light was actually a fire risk. The new strip will use 1.6KWh less a day.
2. I noticed an unusual load on another circuit that covered two bedrooms and a living room. After a little trial and testing using one of their smart plugs I tracked it down to a UPS battery backup on my router and computers. It was drawing 200watts and was running 24/7. Removed it saving 4.8KWh a day.
3. During the early morning warm up I noticed the heat strip was kicking in. This was mainly because we have the house at 67f overnight and it switches to 70f around 7:00am. The thermostat switches the heat strip on if there is a 2f delta and heat pump doesn't start raising the temperature in 10-15 minutes. Altered our thermostat schedule to include two additional time zones raising the temperature to 68f and 69f before it calls for 70f. It takes the heat pump a little longer to raise the temperature but the heat strip draws 10KW so the net result is probably 2KWh a day in the colder months.

The three things above will probably reduce my bill be 6-7KWh a day over the course of the year. So 6KWh x 365 = 2,190KWh = $274 (12.5cents a unit). Easily covering the $149 I paid for the energy monitor.

Thank you.

Similar to Bruce, I got my parasitic loads down to about 60-80 W or so and I know where all but maybe 20-30 W of those loads come from. Eazy process. Just a $25 Kill-a-Watt meter and some snooping.

[mjs020294]

Thank you.

Similar to Bruce, I got my parasitic loads down to about 60-80 W or so and I know where all but maybe 20-30 W of those loads come from. Eazy process. Just a $25 Kill-a-Watt meter and some snooping.

The APP is very useful on the unit I have. I can go around the house switching things off and see the load drop real time. They also have smart plugs so I have a spare simply for testing things over a day or two. Its been quite useful understanding the wiring and usage in our home. All you data can be download into excel as well which might be useful at some point.

[J.P.M.]

The APP is very useful on the unit I have. I can go around the house switching things off and see the load drop real time. They also have smart plugs so I have a spare simply for testing things over a day or two. Its been quite useful understanding the wiring and usage in our home. All you data can be download into excel as well which might be useful at some point.

Understood. All my data is also on a spreadsheet. Makes life a lot easier.

My point is, besides the esoteric goal of losing some independence, I don't see the need to spend a lot of money for tools and equipment when the same goals and information can be attained with simple equipment and simple arithmetic skills.

I see folks around here and elsewhere spending all kinds of money and time on equipment getting a lot of data of often questionable value and they don't know the difference between a kW and a kWh. Guess I'm out of touch and missing something.