Disgusted with new trends forcing equipment to internet cloud connected

[heimdm]

The move to cloud based services has been going on for quite awhile at this point. I have seen on the enterprise/commerical side tons of times where a perfect fine product, they just end of life and stop supporting to get you to buy a new version of the same product. Eventually, they then, prevent the older version from connecting to the cloud platform because the old system just doesn't have the same capabilities.. and it is supposedly in your best interest.

As peakbagger as eluded to it's important to be the installer to your own system in whatever management portal. This is one of the reasons why Generac was hard no for my system build. I never trust a dealer or integrator will be there when I need them. Eventually cloud services always try to move from free to paid. Creating that reoccuring revenue stream is key especially for publicly traded companies. I ended DIY'ing my Solar Edge install, I believe you can do the same for Enphase as well. All of my monitoring is done via the TCP Modbus API and home assistant -- my monitoring platform is 100% local. The only thing I don't get is per-panel performance data. Does Enphase have a local API? Despite all of that being local, the only way to make configuration changes to the inverter themselves is via the IOS/Android setApp connecting via the inverter access point.

[peakbagger]

Probably the number one problem on grid tied systems, I see on forums are communication problems between the gateway and the manufacturers. And the variation where the original installer is out of the picture and the "owner" cannot make changes to the configuration as they are not the installer.

IMHO, the reason for the requirement is strictly commercial, the big trend is hybrid systems with batteries that can be dispatched to the grid. The utilities have no interest in dealing with dispatch of individual systems so they require them to be aggregated and dispatched by a third party, like a manufacturer that now has an ongoing stream of revenue by keeping a portion of the incentives paid for grid dispatch. This can change their business model where they can lose money on upfront sales of equipment in exchange for a long-term stream of revenue.

[Mike90250]

I have an Enphase system.. If I use a VPN will that reduce the risk?
I am not sure what the risk is of data from my micros getting into the hands of others?

it's not the risk of your data escaping, its the inability to control the gear you bought, without someone else being in the middle. and if the net goes down, eventually so does your system. Hmm, why would they do that ? And insist on it?

And a total joke for rural areas, yesterday, verizon had 8 cell towers shut down over a 2 county area here.

https://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/news/eight-cell-towers-offline-in-mendocino-county/

[cgetut]

A VPN under my own control ls my preferred way to access any system that I would own . But model that Enphase is rolling out requires the systems to connect to their cloud for you to be able to control it. You are not controlling it directly, you are sending requests to their servers to ask them for permissions to change settings on your equipment. They require that connection or you can't control them (Enphase won't let you). And even the reporting systems that USED to be able to be queried locally with no cloud requirement are about to be locked down behind a cloud token that expires every so many days.

Under no circumstances, control or query, should cloud be an absolute requirement. For every system of this magnitude and importance and zero trust model should something that homeowners are allowed to enforce. Meaning that no one connects to it from the outside without the owner knowing about it and opening it up.

Enphase is making the argument that you can't update firmware or get support if you do this. That is the entire point. That even Enphase should not be able to connect to, manipulate, or change the system in any way unless the owner lets them in to do it. And that is just not happening, it's going the exact opposite direction , not just by enphase.

It will only change if people get a clue and start demanding that they be able to directly control the equipment on isolated networks that can be set up using a zero trust model.

[Ampster]

I have an Enphase system.. If I use a VPN will that reduce the risk?
I am not sure what the risk is of data from my micros getting into the hands of others?

[cgetut]

I was 75% done with negotiations and planning with an installer to Enphase micro-inverters and their battery system installed along with a 18KW solar grid and luckily I did my homework and found that Enphase was just on the cusp of releasing new firmware for most of their devices that requires cloud based control systems. Meaning I would have to ask permission from servers that I don't control to be able to control equipment at my home behind my firewall. They are also implementing this and have started threatening void of warranties if you block this firmware from loading despite protections from the Magnuson Moss warranty act that prevents them from doing so.

There is a huge reason why industrial control systems in use are considered a joke security wise if they require an internet connected cloud system to be able to control those systems. I work in the IT security field and cannot in good conscience install any system that requires the usage of off site servers to be able to control and get reporting for my system. It truly is a security joke, but a very bad one. Before I started with Enphase I had a quote for a Generac system that also required the same thing.

People with a security clue have to start standing and pushing back against this crap. Yes, it should be something available to users who don't to control this themselves, but in any other case it should not be forced on users. It really is the equivalent of buying a home and your real estate agent insisting that you not get a key to your own home and that you must ask them for permission to come and go. Also the security of the system is much greater when there is a zero trust model in place. This is the same model that any good industry or commercial site uses for control systems. A home owner should not be forced to trust the maker of any system they choose. There should be no connection to the system possible unless the owner of the system is aware of it and there is a documented need for even the manufacturer to connect to the equipment. Then the homeowner would allow them access for support or a firmware upgrade.

The cloud security model is a joke and people need to wake up.