Very Generous Battery Incentives in Mass with generous incentive in CT and RI

[peakbagger]

Eversource is reportedly going all in on incentives for home batteries in a couple of states. I haven't chased the details but reportedly in Mass the combination of the Federal Tax rebate, a Mass SMART incentive and enrolling in the Tesla demand response program will cover the initial cost of the battery. Customers in CT and RI doesn't get the SMART incentives so they only get roughly 2/3rd of the deal. My guess is most of the money indirectly comes from REGGI funds and the hefty system benefits fee on electric bills.

I got this from a post on another forum so caveat emptor. My guess is there are terms and conditions that need to be chased down, Here is link to the post https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/.../#post-2500523

All three states are part of the Regional Greenhouse Gas Initiative (RGGI) They have to meet fairly aggressive renewable goals or pay a penalty into the program and lot of the low hanging fruit are gone so my guess is this is just a way of ramping up some more renewables. Mass also is implementing "Clean Peak" where seasonal peak power events will be supplied by renewables to replace fossil fired peakers. They pay a hefty incentive to get battery owners to dispatch power into the grid during these events. I am involved with a project with a 3 MWhr Tesla battery sitting in a warehouse waiting for the rest of the plant and the switchgear to get installed that will participate int he same program. Unfortunately their interconnect group has not heard the word and make interconnection of large batteries a painfully slow and tedious process.

BTW, The EPA Clean Power Plan which is coming back to life under the new administration program will be impacted all states, Since the RGGI states are doing it voluntarily CPP is already factored in by any state without a renewable program is most likely going to have to put one in. I think a couple of states are joining RGGI.

[Ampster]

Eversource is reportedly going all in on incentives for home batteries ........ They pay a hefty incentive to get battery owners to dispatch power into the grid during these events........

California and Texas could use programs like that. Before it would help in Texas they need to winterize their gas distribution system. Even their windmills were not winterized. ERCOT had recommended winterization but no one did it.

[SunEagle]

California and Texas could use programs like that. Before it would help in Texas they need to winterize their gas distribution system. Even their windmills were not winterized. ERCOT had recommended winterization but no one did it.

I agree. Texas lost power to their customers due to not being prepared for the cold and snow. Their distribution network is just not hardened enough for colder temps.

[J.P.M.]

California and Texas could use programs like that. Before it would help in Texas they need to winterize their gas distribution system. Even their windmills were not winterized. ERCOT had recommended winterization but no one did it.

Agreed, but add that ERCOT like all bureaucracies say lots of stuff to cover their ass.

As I understand some of the story, TX has its own grid at least partially because back in the day and still, TX didn't want the fed. gov. telling it what to do with its grid as would be enabled by interstate commerce with respect to generation crossing state lines so they have their own separate grid which means that without fed. interference/regs. they can often pretty much do what they want with little, if any, federal interference/mandates for such things as safety protocols/policy, etc. Some suggest that being unfettered by the lack of federal shackles has led to, among other things, a focus on lower energy prices at the expense of infrastructure maint./upgrades and forward thinking, and not a lot of incentivization of things like alternate tech. such as residential PV or residential distributed storage. So, little distributed storage exists at this time with what I suspect is little hope for getting more in the future unless/until policy changes occur.

As for CA, even if done well and sensibly, I kind of doubt sharing storage for times when the grid is stressed will get any traction here any time soon. The land of fruits and nuts is also the land of the selfish and unaware. Seems to me most folks in so. CA with storage often also have an EV or two. Such folks as I know in that situation I'd characterize as usually (but not always) being more concerned about charging their EV than helping a neighbor regardless of incentives, partly because they're self centered and partly because they're clueless.

[Ampster]

Interestingly, El Paso chose to join the Western Interconnection and had none of the problems that the rest of Texas had.
A friend, who is familiar with the Texas system, explained why the gas pipes froze. Apparently natural gas comes out of the ground with some moisture. That moisture froze because there was no heating system in the pipes that took it to the dehumidifiers. He also mentioned that it was designed as a "just in time" system and there was little or no storage of dehumidified natural gas. Time will tell if the rumors about ERCOT suggesting winterization (heaters) are true.

[J.P.M.]

Interestingly, El Paso chose to join the Western Interconnection and had none of the problems that the rest of Texas had.
A friend, who is familiar with the Texas system, explained why the gas pipes froze. Apparently natural gas comes out of the ground with some moisture. That moisture froze because there was no heating system in the pipes that took it to the dehumidifiers. He also mentioned that it was designed as a "just in time" system and there was little or no storage of dehumidified natural gas. Time will tell if the rumors about ERCOT suggesting winterization (heaters) are true.

Yea, line heaters can work but get expensive and clumsy to use/maintain. A better method is to get the moisture (and usually some other stuff) out of the gas at the well or at least before transmission. Many times moisture problems also happen at distribution points when gas line pressure is reduced by throttling with the result that any liquid formed by the throttling process freezes from the rapid temp. drop caused by the pressure decrease.

CH4 dehydration is usually considered necessary for many reasons involving safety and line integrity. Having dealt with lots of pipeline folks and designed some pipeline equipment - a fair amount of it in TX, FWIW- I'm sure the equipment is/was designed to be fit for normal and also upset conditions. However, and while not giving anyone a pass on this, the conditions experienced may well have been way beyond any reasonably (or maybe even unreasonably) expected environmental design conditions. Gas transmission lines can be designed for use on, say AK's north slope. I'd not like to be the one trying to justify such a choice for use in a warmer climate such as TX. Many of those same AK design conditions would be inappropriate for a gas transmission line in TX, including, given the small probability of such low temps, being uneconomic. But the conditions recently encountered in TX sound closer to north slope design conditions. Comes down to how safe you want the design to be for how unlikely the condition is and how much $$ you want to spend for an increasingly small probability of a problem occurring.

[soby]

Eversource is reportedly going all in on incentives for home batteries in a couple of states. I haven't chased the details but reportedly in Mass the combination of the Federal Tax rebate, a Mass SMART incentive and enrolling in the Tesla demand response program will cover the initial cost of the battery. Customers in CT and RI doesn't get the SMART incentives so they only get roughly 2/3rd of the deal. My guess is most of the money indirectly comes from REGGI funds and the hefty system benefits fee on electric bills.

I got this from a post on another forum so caveat emptor. My guess is there are terms and conditions that need to be chased down, Here is link to the post https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/.../#post-2500523

All three states are part of the Regional Greenhouse Gas Initiative (RGGI) They have to meet fairly aggressive renewable goals or pay a penalty into the program and lot of the low hanging fruit are gone so my guess is this is just a way of ramping up some more renewables. Mass also is implementing "Clean Peak" where seasonal peak power events will be supplied by renewables to replace fossil fired peakers. They pay a hefty incentive to get battery owners to dispatch power into the grid during these events. I am involved with a project with a 3 MWhr Tesla battery sitting in a warehouse waiting for the rest of the plant and the switchgear to get installed that will participate int he same program. Unfortunately their interconnect group has not heard the word and make interconnection of large batteries a painfully slow and tedious process.

BTW, The EPA Clean Power Plan which is coming back to life under the new administration program will be impacted all states, Since the RGGI states are doing it voluntarily CPP is already factored in by any state without a renewable program is most likely going to have to put one in. I think a couple of states are joining RGGI.

I can confirm the generosity for battery storage in MA. I added an LG Chem RESU10H to my solar install and it was a no-brainer. The 30% federal rebate was the start. Then the MA SMART program added $0.044676/kWh to my program payments which adds up to about $580/year for 10 years. That alone paid for the battery but the ConnectedSolutions battery program also pays $225/kW in the summer and $50/kW in the winter to allow them to discharge the battery from 100% to 14% whenever there is an event. My payment from National Grid for the summer of 2020 was just under $700 and I'm expecting about $125 for this winter. Those incentive rates are locked in for 5 years so about $4,000 expected.

The icing on the cake is the battery backup. Our power went out for 15 minutes this past week while we were home and the most annoying part was setting the time on the microwave and oven that aren't backed up.

[peakbagger]

The standard comment regarding incentives in Mass is "If you dont take advantage of them, you are paying your neighbor to do so". Almost all the incentives come from the ratepayer base either directly on indirectly, its either direct from a surcharge on energy use or an indirectly one that is passed down on the REGI carbon fees.

The bummer is unless someone has the right manufacturers gear on their home they cannot participate unless they upgrade.

[PVAndy]

Eversource is reportedly going all in on incentives for home batteries in a couple of states. I haven't chased the details but reportedly in Mass the combination of the Federal Tax rebate, a Mass SMART incentive and enrolling in the Tesla demand response program will cover the initial cost of the battery. Customers in CT and RI doesn't get the SMART incentives so they only get roughly 2/3rd of the deal. My guess is most of the money indirectly comes from REGGI funds and the hefty system benefits fee on electric bills.

I got this from a post on another forum so caveat emptor. My guess is there are terms and conditions that need to be chased down, Here is link to the post https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/.../#post-2500523

All three states are part of the Regional Greenhouse Gas Initiative (RGGI) They have to meet fairly aggressive renewable goals or pay a penalty into the program and lot of the low hanging fruit are gone so my guess is this is just a way of ramping up some more renewables. Mass also is implementing "Clean Peak" where seasonal peak power events will be supplied by renewables to replace fossil fired peakers. They pay a hefty incentive to get battery owners to dispatch power into the grid during these events. I am involved with a project with a 3 MWhr Tesla battery sitting in a warehouse waiting for the rest of the plant and the switchgear to get installed that will participate int he same program. Unfortunately their interconnect group has not heard the word and make interconnection of large batteries a painfully slow and tedious process.

BTW, The EPA Clean Power Plan which is coming back to life under the new administration program will be impacted all states, Since the RGGI states are doing it voluntarily CPP is already factored in by any state without a renewable program is most likely going to have to put one in. I think a couple of states are joining RGGI.

The Conn program is called Connected Solutions where the customer is paid for each event where the battery is called upon for demand response. The customer is notified a day in advance and can opt out of any event, Generac & Tesla both participate in the program. It goes for 5 years.

In Conn very shortly there will be(if approved by PURA) an actual Greenbank rebate in addition to Connected Solutions & Fed Tax Credit

Andy

[Ampster]

Totally unrelated to CT and RI but demand may be increasing for Tesla Powerwalls in Texas as a result of recent grid failures caused by weather. On another forum it was reported that Tesla is no longer taking reservations for Powerwalls that are not connected to solar installs. This may be because of the increased demand caused by the weather events in Texas.
I find that ironic that the the lack of building in resiliency to the grid in Texas may result in less market share for those utilities in the long term.

[peakbagger]

A few months ago, Tesla was freezing large battery orders as they were shutting down a major production line and revamping it for a new style of cells for several months.

[soby]

I do want to add one thing regarding the ConnectedSolutions program. By participating I gave a certain degree of control over my inverter and battery management over to the utility companies. A side affect of this has been an even higher level of difficulty when I try to change battery charge/discharge profiles and set backup reserve values during normal times. My inverter is currently stuck with a backup reserve threshold of 50% and I have been unable to increase or decrease this value even though there are no battery discharge events schedule.

When I spoke to a Tier 1 SolarEdge technical support rep, he told me that the participation in ConnectedSolutions is the likely source of the issue and that I will need to get written permission from ConnectedSolutions allowing SolarEdge to escalate the issue and further troubleshoot.

[Ampster]

That makes sense to me that they would want control over your reserves if they are going to use it for grid stabilization. I don't know the dynamics of the Connecticut grid but there are times in California where they want more load so they do not have to curtail solar and wind. Curtailing Solar and wind refuces their ability to accomplish their RPS goals. On the otherhand, events like last summer's heat wave in California would be when they would discharge a system into the grid.
What will be interesting to see is whether they adjust the reserve in anticipation of any of those events. Keep us informed. We need something like that in California to keep the grid stabile.

[soby]

Let me clarify: I have no problem with it when ConnectedSolutions calls for an event and takes over my inverter. That's what I signed up for.

Whenever they are going to have a battery discharge event, they send an email the day before. By the next morning, they modify the inverter config to charge the battery via solar until it is full. It stays that way until the discharge event when it dumps that energy into the grid (or my house) as fast as it can (5kW max). The discharge ignores the inverter user-defined backup reserve and allows the battery to drop to 10-15% SOE. After that, the battery configuration returns to normal unless another event is scheduled.

My issues is that there seem to be restrictions on the battery configuration at all times. I have found that I cannot use the generic SolarEdge battery configurations (Maximum self consumption, backup only, StorEdge disabled) and can only use the custom defined TOU charge/discharge storage profiles. This is a little annoying but not insurmountable.

I have now discovered that there is also a restriction on changes to the Backup Reserve value as well at all times. The program is active right now even though they've only had one event this winter to date but there is no reason why I shouldn't be able to change the default Backup Reserve value for my inverter when there is no battery discharge event. I'm trying to decrease it from 50% to 30% and it just ignores me.

I emailed ConnectedSolutions asking about this so we'll see what they say. I'm hoping it's just an unintended side effect of the program and I'm the only one that has encountered it and cared enough to ask.

[Ampster]

Thanks for the clarification on how it works. Hopefully is is worth it. I signed up for and get a $5 a month credit to allow my provider to turn off my EV charger. So far they have never done that. On the otherhand I never charge furing times when the grid might be stressed.