Inverter fault

[oregon_phil]

I know Inflection doesn’t come across in text but I wasn’t irritated when I asked why you wanted to know, I was trying to understand your thinking before asking my brother to open the box.

Message received. Believe me when I tell you I'm trying to help you get your system fixed the way you want it. Download this Solar Edge document:

StorEdge™ Wiring Guide & On Site Checklist for North America (storedge_wiring_quick_guide_and_on_site_checklist _na.pdf).

If you read it and understand what they are trying to achieve at each step, then you will know more about your system than the installer. But that's not the point. You paid Vivent for a service and they are not providing that service. How can this be rectified by Vivent?

Why does a customer always have to know more about the product than the company selling the product?

[Ampster]

I am going to LA to deal with some issues but will be back in Sonoma County in ten days. I am not familiar with your exact system but I think we share the same goals to reduce our dependency on PGE so to the extent that I can be helpful I am available and nearby. I am only fifteen minutes from Santa Rosa and often travel there so I am sure we can figure out a way to collaborate to help you optimize your system

[Veger70]

I am going to LA to deal with some issues but will be back in Sonoma County in ten days. I am not familiar with your exact system but I think we share the same goals to reduce our dependency on PGE so to the extent that I can be helpful I am available and nearby. I am only fifteen minutes from Santa Rosa and often travel there so I am sure we can figure out a way to collaborate to help you optimize your system

Thx Ampster, Phil for the help, I’ll read the document Phil you listed. I agree Vivint is lacking, but maybe it’s by design. That I’m aware we were the only customer that received two batteries, our salesman informed us it was a mistake that they only designed systems with one battery, but that since he told us we could, he would make sure we would get it. Since the original design was for one battery and with no connection to the house, and since I’m sure ours was a typical design, their “Performance team” probably hasn’t ever had to deal with these questions.

[Veger70]

Ok guys the specialist came out and sure enough they had one inverter and battery setup in pack up mode and not correctly in master slave mode. On our firs full day of full system use we produced 43.72kWh but I think they still have it configured wrong,

[Ampster]

Did they set your high rate period? I don't understand the production bump late in afternoon/early evening The orange consumption number looks to be offset by solar during the day but not early evening. The only way is to be sure is to see what PG&E shows for same hours on their website. Usually that detail lags by a day. Maybe that aberration is how battery consumption is depicted. Also concurrent late afternoon charging and discharging is mysterious.
This is a DC coupled system so the best time to charge the batteries would be with that clipped solar energy during mid day. That would also suggest you could utilize the batteries more agressively overnight. On the other hand if you are only paying Vivint for power produced, clipping represents no loss to you.

[Veger70]

Did they set your high rate period? I don't understand the production bump late in afternoon/early evening The orange consumption number looks to be offset by solar during the day but not early evening. The only way is to be sure is to see what PG&E shows for same hours on their website. Usually that detail lags by a day. Maybe that aberration is how battery consumption is depicted. Also concurrent late afternoon charging and discharging is mysterious.
This is a DC coupled system so the best time to charge the batteries would be with that clipped solar energy during mid day. That would also suggest you could utilize the batteries more agressively overnight. On the other hand if you are only paying Vivint for power produced, clipping represents no loss to you.

The tech said they were aware of my peak hours and that they had the system set to comply. The house will never be able to run off the batteries totally because the upstairs, heater and air-conditioning are not connected to the batteries. We could only connect 4 breakers per inverter to the batteries.We’re not using the upstairs and the heater right now so it should be negligible. I not sure they are that worried about charging batteries off clipped power. Especially if it doesn’t cost them money

[Ampster]

As long as you are getting generation and can verify some loads are being offset by battery power you should be happy. Based on only some loads supported by batteries there may not be as much coorelation with the PG&E numbers on an hourly basis. However long term hopefully you will be building NEM credits as the days get longer.

[oregon_phil]

I assume the two screen shots are from the Vivint app. As you have noted, solar production looks odd.

Questions:

1) Using the Vivint app, can you view each system by itself? System 1 & System 2?
2) In the Vivint app, can you view the equipment being displayed?

Other mystifying thoughts:

You said some modes were not set up correctly (I love RS 485...). Did the tech verify all the devices were communicating correctly after the mode change?

Also, the SolarEdge manual for the energy meter says it can be used with two inverters IF the additional RS-485 board is installed. In other words, Inverter 1 RS 485 out io Inverter 2 RS 485 Port 1 (native port), Inverter 2 RS 485 port 2 (RS 485 plug in port option) to energy meter. If they did not add the RS 485 plug in port in Inverter 2, then I think you would have an unstable communication system, which mean unstable data. I didn't see a commercial gateway in your schematics, so that option does not apply.

To verify correct installation, the RS 485 plug in port would have to be verified in the inverter that has 23 panels plugged into it.

SolarEdge Meter.png

[soby]

Sorry for my absence. I wasn't getting notified of new posts to this thread.

I want to start by correcting one big misconception I noticed during my readthrough: while you are connected to the grid, the battery power can be used to power ANY load in your house NOT just those connected to the backup loads panels. When the battery is discharging, it is capable of discharging through the normal 40amp inverter connection to your main distribution panel as well as through the backup loads panel. Smart Energy Management is able to do "Maximum self consumption" by measuring your input/output to the grid and having the inverter adjust its output to supply the loads in your home and keep it net zero with the grid. If the grid goes down, the inverter goes into backup mode and the only loads that are energized are those connected to the inverter via the backup loads panel connection from the inverters.

Storage Profiles. To configure the batteries, you need a very high level access to your installer's monitoring website account to create storage profiles. It is possible to have this access concurrently with Vivint but it isn't trivial and they will likely push back. If you want to pursue this, let me know and I can go into further detail. Once the profiles are created, you can switch between storage profiles whenever you like. How you configure the storage profile will depend on two things: inverter clipping and TOU rates.

Inverter clipping occurs when your panels are producing more DC energy than your inverter can output in AC power (~7.8kW). Any energy produced above the output limit is simply lost so it is highly beneficial to charge the batteries using essentially free clipped solar energy. Setting the inverter to charge from clipped solar will ONLY divert DC power above the inverter output limit directly to the battery. The battery will not charge above the backup reserve if there is no clipped solar energy

I am not an expert on TOU since Massachusetts doesn't have them (yet). My basic understanding is that you want to draw from the grid when energy is cheap and minimize draw when energy is more expensive. Another layer to that is grid export with net metering. Does your account get credited more if you push energy back into the grid during times when the TOU rate is higher? If not, your best bet is to just minimize grid usage during expensive times with maximize self consumption. If so, you want the batteries to discharge fully when the higher energy rate becomes effective.

My guess is that at least one of the batteries is currently configured to max discharge at 5pm when your rate goes up. This is beneficial but it is also the highest wear/tear on the battery since it will cycle every day. If Vivint would let you, it would be helpful to raise the backup reserve to 40-50% to increase your backup capacity and reduce the discharge cycling depth. Furthermore, if the inverters are clipping above the ~7.8kW AC output limit, settings the inverters to first charge the batteries via clipped solar then switch to regular solar charging at ~3pm and start discharging at 5pm would be the best way to maximize production, harvest clipped energy and get the best TOU bang-for-the-buck.

For each of the backup loads panels, what do the breakers feed? Do you know what is backed up in each panel?

I own my battery so I am worried about longevity. I have no TOU so my battery has a backup reserve of 50% and is set to charge only from clipped solar. We've had a few weeks of very sunny days and the battery has been regularly charging from 50% to 90-95%. One time it even charged fully and the inverter had to start clipping since there was nowhere to put the extra panel generation. I'm preparing to drop the backup reserve to 30% because of this. My storage profile then switches over to Maximum self consumption at 1am and stays that way until 8am. This allows for a gradual discharge of 1-2kW until the battery returns to the backup reserve state. See attachments.

Any more questions? I'll keep tabs on this thread.