Hybrid + Grid Tie

[hardwired]

Assume you have a grid-tie inverter (solaredge) and want to add a 2nd system that's a hybrid with ability to generate power if the grid goes down. The 2nd system would provide power off the array during sunlight and run off battery in the eve for bare essentials.

What recommended hybrid systems for 6-8kw are there?
Whats my options to engage the hybrid on manually or if possible automatically?
With the Grid Tie off and Grid disconnected, can The hybrid drive just Daylight array generation without a battery system?
if disconnected from the Grid and the Hybrid is powering the home, can the Grid Tie Inverter be connected and sense the AC output by the Hybrid and turn on its ouput and provide additional power separately?

[Mike90250]

I have, use and like the Schneider XW series of inverters. (hybrid)

[Ampster]

With the Grid Tie off and Grid disconnected, can The hybrid drive just Daylight array generation without a battery system?
if disconnected from the Grid and the Hybrid is powering the home, can the Grid Tie Inverter be connected and sense the AC output by the Hybrid and turn on its ouput and provide additional power separately?

Yes, as far as I know the Outback Skybox can operate without a battery and power loads with Solar. I don't think other Outback products like the Radian can operate like that.They need a battery in order to boot up.

On the other hand the hybrid needs the battery as a buffer if it is going to control the grid tie inverter. This is known as AC coupling and both the Outback Radian and Skybox can use AC coupling to control the grid tie inverter. I am not sure what you mean by, "separately"? The hybrid and the grid tie need to be connected (coupled) because the hybrid uses frequency shifting to modulate or shut down the grid tie inverter if the load decreases. This is a complex process and before purchasing a hybrid inverter one would need to understand the complexities. Those include sizing the load panel and making the correct match between the battery size (buffer) on the hybrid inverter and the capacity of the grid tie system. My experience is limited to Outback products.

[hardwired]

I have, use and like the Schneider XW series of inverters. (hybrid)

Mike,
Looking at this Scneider configuration it looks like it can't provide any power directly from a set of PV panels during sunny daytime. It charges a battery bank from the AC line only when the grid is up and then discharges the battery bank from its inverter to a separate critical loads subpanel.

Is there another Schneider config that uses its own PV array and with the grid off and disconnected generate AC
1) Day from PV and/or battery. When on the grid tie Inverter senses Hybrid AC output turns on and provides watts from its array
2) Night - no PV generation and limited to the battery bank

20190222_Residential_Retrofit_Installations_r1.pdf

[Mike90250]

Scneider XW needs batteries to sell, they make a straight GT inverter to run off 500V strings of PV, but can only feed the grid.

But you can't get batteryless daytime, AND nighttime battery backup, from anything. You need a hybrid inverter and batteries. Or else I'm not understanding what you are asking

[hardwired]

The Outback Skybox Ampstar posted claims it can in daylight without batteries. Saw they said it "Tries"?

[Ampster]

The Outback Skybox Ampstar posted claims it can in daylight without batteries. Saw they said it "Tries"?

Yes there are some idiosycrosies that I haven't fully documented yet. I got an early one and the user base isn't large enough for there to meaningful dialogue with a large number of users yet. Outback support has been good and they came through with AC coupling as promised in the initial release. Another hybrid that some people have reported good luck with is the SolArk. It is similar to the Skybox in that it has charge controller, display, BOS and Internet connectivity built in. I previously had a Radian at another location and had a substantial investment in those modules in addition to the basic Inverter. I like the built in ability to monitor the Skybox remotely from my laptop or smart phone rather than stand in front of the display in the garage.
I am not sure why any one would run a hybrid inverter without batteries because that would be the same functionality as a grid tie inverter and cost three times as much. Perhaps as future upgradability. I have always run mine with batteries and I am sure you could set up a small inexpensive pack in order for it to boot if that was an issue. I did run mine without Solar for a while because I already had a grid tie system. I found it did work better for load shifting when I added some solar panels. I bought some used Sunpower panels that I mounted on a west facing patio cover and that gave me enough power to run my critical loads during the day and charge my batteries. I used the battery pack to run my critical loads into the evening portion of my peak rate period.