Hybrid Solar, grid tied solar pv with batteries

[NothingInCommon]

I'm still not understanding this disdain for youtube. You guys speak of the solar stuff on there as this general abstraction that the audience is incapable of filtering. There are people on there filming real world home/commercial installs, thousands of them. How is it possible that the bulk of them are all full of ****? That doesn't make much sense to me. As with anything, there is good and bad you just have to look for the good and as I am learning it's easier to spot.

I respect your opinions on solar as it seems like you guys know what you are talking about, but i think the youtube hate is irrational... ahhh everyone is different.

I'm still a n00b, maybe in a couple of years i'll be poking fun of youtube and the mindless drones that can't help but soak in the disinformation.

[SunEagle]

So, u-tube is the latest way for slick con men to separate fools from their money. More proof that P.T. Barnum was on to something.

u-tube is certainly an easy communication vehicle to promote products and advertising without the hassle and expense of traveling and setting up your soap box.

[J.P.M.]

There are a lot of people that are concerned about climate and higher electric costs so they are easily swayed by very optimistic videos showing how they can either help reduce carbon or reduce their electric bills.

You can probably pick any topic over the last century and find a way to play on people's fears to get them to "buy into" just about anything.

Something similar happened back during the dust bowl era where slick sales men got people to invest in just about anything that they thought would make it rain and help their crops.

My guess is that if a lot of people start to get sick for no good reason someone will reintroduce "snake oil" as the new medical miracle to cure what ails you.

So, u-tube is the latest way for slick con men to separate fools from their money. More proof that P.T. Barnum was on to something.

[SunEagle]

I think we are in agreement on the value of most things on youtube. the shear volume of FUD makes it difficult for the uninformed to even find the few useful videos like those from reputable sources.

I have see so many solar how to's that actually remind me of the red green show, I can't understand sometimes why some take it as good advice.

There are a lot of people that are concerned about climate and higher electric costs so they are easily swayed by very optimistic videos showing how they can either help reduce carbon or reduce their electric bills.

You can probably pick any topic over the last century and find a way to play on people's fears to get them to "buy into" just about anything.

Something similar happened back during the dust bowl era where slick sales men got people to invest in just about anything that they thought would make it rain and help their crops.

My guess is that if a lot of people start to get sick for no good reason someone will reintroduce "snake oil" as the new medical miracle to cure what ails you.

[ButchDeal]

Actually, what I meant to convey is that most stuff on u-tube - solar and R.E., and most all of the rest of it - is useless other than for it's entertainment value, and not to be taken seriously. Most of its content is little more than unvetted, unfiltered and unverified attempts at ego fulfillment for folks who want more than 15 min. of fame, most of whom seem to not have the time or concern to care about the damage their half or less informed junk has the potential to do. Taking it more seriously than that and at face value is like getting all your news from a comedy show who don't know the difference between knowledge and entertainmentr.

I think we are in agreement on the value of most things on youtube. the shear volume of FUD makes it difficult for the uninformed to even find the few useful videos like those from reputable sources.

I have see so many solar how to's that actually remind me of the red green show, I can't understand sometimes why some take it as good advice.

http://www.redgreen.com/

[J.P.M.]

he is saying that because the vast majority of videos on youtube related to solar are unsafe and poorly configured.

eg:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okqXr7RbCDo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgEvCLJuBkg

On this forum the SMA secure power system has been discussed ad nauseam.

Actually, what I meant to convey is that most stuff on u-tube - solar and R.E., and most all of the rest of it - is useless other than for it's entertainment value, and not to be taken seriously. Most of its content is little more than unvetted, unfiltered and unverified attempts at ego fulfillment for folks who want more than 15 min. of fame, most of whom seem to not have the time or concern to care about the damage their half or less informed junk has the potential to do. Taking it more seriously than that and at face value is like getting all your news from a comedy show who don't know the difference between knowledge and entertainmentr.

Kind of a sign of the times as to what is considered knowledge or what knowledge acquisition has become and another indication and example of why we're a nation and planet in decline.

To NothinginCommon: I'm still mostly ignorant about most things, including solar and renewable energy, and getting more ignorant every day by virtue of discovering there's more that I don't know than I thought. However, based on a long time hanging around those subjects and after a career as a mechanical engineer in the energy field, IMO, most of the u-tube stuff is wasteful with respect to the use of time and assets the solar ignorant may assign to them, and more importantly, with some unknown level of possible damage to property or, more importantly, possible personal injury. Use at your own risk.

Take what you want of the above. Scrap the rest.

[littleharbor]

While this might be more than many folks would do what I have at home is a small 800 watt 24 volt array and a small battery bank, 150 Ah @ 24 volts. We run our TV, satellite receiver and home theater components from it. Here in Avalon we average one power outage a month. Its nice to have an alternative power source which DOSEN"T go down on a regular basis.

[ButchDeal]

Once there was a time you didn't know about solar and now you do and that's wonderful. It doesn't mean those of us that don't are idiots because we lookup stuff on youtube. I've learned plenty on youtube, it's an excellent resource. I'm sure there is loads of stuff on there that's BS, but I don't take anything as scripture and that includes what I find on forums.

From this forum I took that was "impossible" to get power from a grid tie in a grid down scenario, which is not the case. You can. However, it was my misunderstanding, of course, as I didn't consider the "uninterrupted" bit. Now I know that it is possible and that it's very limited thanks to forums and youtube.

he is saying that because the vast majority of videos on youtube related to solar are unsafe and poorly configured.

eg:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okqXr7RbCDo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgEvCLJuBkg

On this forum the SMA secure power system has been discussed ad nauseam.

[NothingInCommon]

Once there was the Reader's Digest. Now there's U-tube.The new idiot's bible.

Once there was a time you didn't know about solar and now you do and that's wonderful. It doesn't mean those of us that don't are idiots because we lookup stuff on youtube. I've learned plenty on youtube, it's an excellent resource. I'm sure there is loads of stuff on there that's BS, but I don't take anything as scripture and that includes what I find on forums.

From this forum I took that was "impossible" to get power from a grid tie in a grid down scenario, which is not the case. You can. However, it was my misunderstanding, of course, as I didn't consider the "uninterrupted" bit. Now I know that it is possible and that it's very limited thanks to forums and youtube.

[sensij]

OK guys I keep watching videos that contradict some of the information I got here. According to this guy, you can do grid-tie and STILL use the PV array for power in a grid down scenario WITHOUT batteries using an SMA inverter. PLEASE clarify.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izjZBCRyCK8&t=11m45s

This isn't a contradiction to anything you've been told here. The SMA SPS system doesn't offer uninterrupted power. It offers intermittent power without batteries when the grid is down, as long as your load doesn't exceed the available wattage available from the array in that instant. Cloud passes by, it could knock out your load. You need storage for uninterrupted power.

[J.P.M.]

If the cost for that secure power option is low then for some it is worth while to get it. Unfortunately most people that install a large grid tie system get pissed off when they find out it will not work when the grid is down or only a very small portion may work if the sun is out.

We just want people to make good decisions on good information. Sometime YouTube is not a good or reliable source of information. Best place to get it is by research, reading and learning all about the solar technology hardware and what it can really provide.

Once there was the Reader's Digest. Now there's U-tube.The new idiot's bible.

[SunEagle]

In other words it is not really that useful for short outages OR maintaining an average standard of living. However, it IS a way to extract SOME energy from the resource you have already invested in in the event of some major grid disruption you may or may not believe could happen. The more panel wattage you have, the more likely you are to see that secure power outlet providing that 2kW during the day.

If the cost for that secure power option is low then for some it is worth while to get it. Unfortunately most people that install a large grid tie system get pissed off when they find out it will not work when the grid is down or only a very small portion may work if the sun is out.

We just want people to make good decisions on good information. Sometime YouTube is not a good or reliable source of information. Best place to get it is by research, reading and learning all about the solar technology hardware and what it can really provide.

[adoublee]

The secure power feature on SMA inverters is a way to use SOME of the array's output, yes. The problem is you will at best get 2000 watts from an added receptacle at the inverter which, in the event of a grid down scenario, you will have to manually switch it on. If your array isn't potting out 2000 watts you wont get full power. Say there are thunder storms in the area or a wide spread storm that knocks the grid out. If your array isn't in good full sunlight you may not get much usable power. Then when the grid comes back up you need to manually switch the inverter back, otherwise your inverter is only powering the single secure power circuit.

In other words it is not really that useful for short outages OR maintaining an average standard of living. However, it IS a way to extract SOME energy from the resource you have already invested in in the event of some major grid disruption you may or may not believe could happen. The more panel wattage you have, the more likely you are to see that secure power outlet providing that 2kW during the day.

[littleharbor]

OK guys I keep watching videos that contradict some of the information I got here. According to this guy, you can do grid-tie and STILL use the PV array for power in a grid down scenario WITHOUT batteries using an SMA inverter. PLEASE clarify.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izjZBCRyCK8&t=11m45s

The secure power feature on SMA inverters is a way to use SOME of the array's output, yes. The problem is you will at best get 2000 watts from an added receptacle at the inverter which, in the event of a grid down scenario, you will have to manually switch it on. If your array isn't potting out 2000 watts you wont get full power. Say there are thunder storms in the area or a wide spread storm that knocks the grid out. If your array isn't in good full sunlight you may not get much usable power. Then when the grid comes back up you need to manually switch the inverter back, otherwise your inverter is only powering the single secure power circuit.

[SunEagle]

OK guys I keep watching videos that contradict some of the information I got here. According to this guy, you can do grid-tie and STILL use the PV array for power in a grid down scenario WITHOUT batteries using an SMA inverter. PLEASE clarify.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izjZBCRyCK8&t=11m45s

The reason those inverters will work if the grid goes down is because they have the Secure power option. That allows you to harvest between 1500 and 2000 watts of power from your panels if there is sunlight. You still do not get the full output from your panel wattage due to the inverter limitations.

The other drawback with the secure power option is that you have to manually imitate it to work and then manually shut it down and then start the inverter back up again when the grid comes back.

Another drawback is that the secure power source can work intermittently depending on how much sun (if any) hitting the panels.

The way I look at it is that the majority of the times I lose grid power is either during the night or during a storm. The secure power option will not provide me anything in those situations. But for others is may provide enough power to charge something up.

Just remember that what is posted on Youtube is not necessarily 100% truthful.