Enphase Mico Inverter

[bwillng]

How about the ethernet bridge I suggested in my post?

When I get my envoy and Ethernet cabling done I will see if it is adequate, if and only if it does not work than I will invest in your suggestion. I don't want this project to become a money pit.

[Naptown]

I have an ac outlet right below the panel that I can use for the envoy (about 18" away). I plan on running an Ethernet cable from my house computer to the garage which will be a total of 150'. You see my garage was built first (2002) and the main power for the house (2005) is feed from the garage to the house about 90' away. Both my wind and solar are connected to an auxiliary panel in the garage because the main panel in the garage was not big enough (did not have the necessary breaker openings) for the power outlets in the garage during construction. We put in an extra 100amp service to take care of added dryer and washer and remote power pole for the carpenters. My second computer will be in the upper level of the garage. I am not sure how to connect the two of them at this point. I could make a short run from the computer in the upper level but it is not connected to the internet. This is why I would like to run the 150' Ethernet cable from the house and connect to my main computer. The power for the envoy will still be connected from the power outlet in the garage. Do you have any other suggestions?

How about the ethernet bridge I suggested in my post?

[bwillng]

there will be some voltage drop but not significant.
If and when you get your Envoy communications with the inverters may be an issue. The Envoy will need to be set and plugged into an outlet right next to the electric panel. If the internet connection is not right there you will need the Enphase ethernet bridge to continue to the router.

I have an ac outlet right below the panel that I can use for the envoy (about 18" away). I plan on running an Ethernet cable from my house computer to the garage which will be a total of 150'. You see my garage was built first (2002) and the main power for the house (2005) is feed from the garage to the house about 90' away. Both my wind and solar are connected to an auxiliary panel in the garage because the main panel in the garage was not big enough (did not have the necessary breaker openings) for the power outlets in the garage during construction. We put in an extra 100amp service to take care of added dryer and washer and remote power pole for the carpenters. My second computer will be in the upper level of the garage. I am not sure how to connect the two of them at this point. I could make a short run from the computer in the upper level but it is not connected to the internet. This is why I would like to run the 150' Ethernet cable from the house and connect to my main computer. The power for the envoy will still be connected from the power outlet in the garage. Do you have any other suggestions?

[russ]

[QUOTE=bwillng;46547]I am no genius by any means, but what type of power do you have coming into your home or commercial establishment. Why did Tesla beat out Edison for power distribution, because as I understand it AC is easier to transmit over longer distances? Do any of you have DC from the power company? I guess this is why I chose Enphase inverters because I thought AC would be best transmitted over greater distances. I know this is a dirty word but my wind generator inverts the voltage at the generator and AC enters my main breaker. The working distance for the wind generator is 60

[Naptown]

[QUOTE=bwillng;46547]I am no genius by any means, but what type of power do you have coming into your home or commercial establishment. Why did Tesla beat out Edison for power distribution, because as I understand it AC is easier to transmit over longer distances? Do any of you have DC from the power company? I guess this is why I chose Enphase inverters because I thought AC would be best transmitted over greater distances. I know this is a dirty word but my wind generator inverts the voltage at the generator and AC enters my main breaker. The working distance for the wind generator is 60

[inetdog]

I am no genius by any means, but what type of power do you have coming into your home or commercial establishment. Why did Tesla beat out Edison for power distribution, because as I understand it AC is easier to transmit over longer distances? Do any of you have DC from the power company?

You hear this argument (why power companies use AC for transmission lines) a lot. But it is misleading.
For either AC or DC, the resistive losses for the same size wires are pretty much equal (except when reactive loads like motors (inductors) or capacitors are involved.)

But if you can use higher voltages, the current will be lower for the same amount of power transmitted and so will the energy loss for the same size wires.

Before semiconductor electronics, there was no practical way to transmit DC at high voltages and still provide it to the user at safe low voltages. With AC, "solid state" copper and iron transformers did the job of voltage conversion pretty well.
Now that there are reasonable ways of stepping DC power up and down in voltage, utility companies are looking more and more at DC transmission for long distances in the grid. This reduces reactive losses and skin-effect losses in conductors. But it does have its own problems.

DC is handy to use for local transport of power in a standalone or grid tied PV system in part because by using series strings of panels it is possible to use DC voltages up to 500 volts or more, compared to 120 or 240 for the AC side of systems without transformers. Also you can separate the panels from the batteries efficiently by using DC. This lets you put the batteries and the inverters close to either the point of use of the AC or the point where it connects to the grid.

If you are using low voltage panel and battery systems, the balance definitely tips the other way. And you end up needing to use monster (non-TM) cables to go any distance with low voltage DC.

[bwillng]

Set me staight

I am no genius by any means, but what type of power do you have coming into your home or commercial establishment. Why did Tesla beat out Edison for power distribution, because as I understand it AC is easier to transmit over longer distances? Do any of you have DC from the power company? I guess this is why I chose Enphase inverters because I thought AC would be best transmitted over greater distances. I know this is a dirty word but my wind generator inverts the voltage at the generator and AC enters my main breaker. The working distance for the wind generator is 60

[russ]

The poor fellow showed he knew nothing but loved to chatter - he is now gone.

[Naptown]

No, a manager. I don't think sales reps file NCR's (non conformance report).
I've also never claimed to be an "expert". Experts are those either qualified by degree, or certification which I have niether. How ever I can comment on the physical realities of tangibly using the products first hand.

While rich is correct that packaged micro inverter and panels are mostly coupled as a package through panel manufacturers. Micro inverters are as well sold seperately for use on double layered glass panels.
I as well am retracting my earlier statement of voltage drop on AC it's apparent when using the same conductor size for DC , AC shows a .01% less difference in voltage drop per 100'.

DC current voltage drop.08%
AC single phase current voltage drop .07%
AC 3phase current voltage drop .062%

Regarding the statement in red
There is only one manufacturer I know that prepackages a microinverter attached to the module. Enphase does not do this they are sold separately. And there is no panel manufacturer that double glazes it's modules for standard installation. There may be some BIPV modules used as glazing that may be double glazed but they are not in the least mainstream or efficient nor would they be using a micro inverter.

[russ]

No, a manager.

That explains all

[Mike90250]

....I as well am retracting my earlier statement of voltage drop on AC it's apparent when using the same conductor size for DC , AC shows a .01% less difference in voltage drop per 100'.

DC current voltage drop.08%
AC single phase current voltage drop .07%
AC 3phase current voltage drop .062%

I think you need a better meter. AC line losses are greater than DC, in my experience. If nothing else, capacitive losses exist in AC, that don't exist in DC, peak voltages (and leakages) in AC are higher than the same power for DC

[solarpowered]

What is your job with solar? Salesman perhaps? Certainly nothing on the technical side.

The reason to come down hard on you is that you are presenting yourself as an expert when in reality you have little idea.

No, a manager. I don't think sales reps file NCR's (non conformance report).
I've also never claimed to be an "expert". Experts are those either qualified by degree, or certification which I have niether. How ever I can comment on the physical realities of tangibly using the products first hand.

While rich is correct that packaged micro inverter and panels are mostly coupled as a package through panel manufacturers. Micro inverters are as well sold seperately for use on double layered glass panels.
I as well am retracting my earlier statement of voltage drop on AC it's apparent when using the same conductor size for DC , AC shows a .01% less difference in voltage drop per 100'.

DC current voltage drop.08%
AC single phase current voltage drop .07%
AC 3phase current voltage drop .062%

[russ]

Now I am convinced you have no idea at all

The temp concerns regarding solar PV are cell temps - If an electronics item is designed to operate at 50

[Naptown]

I know of no module manufacturer that is using a double glazed construction. Standard layup is Low Iron tempered glass, EVA, Cell, EVA, Tedlar.
Yes it will be hotter on the roof but remember these are designed to operate in that environment. They are also in the shade with an air space between the inverter and the Module. Yes I will admit it will be warmer than down below but substantially cooler than the face of the module.

I have no Idea what you are talking about regarding fuses. If you mean that the space when blown is larger this is due to DC's propensity to arc when under load ( think welder)

[solarpowered]

(? WTF are you talking about - neither of your points are any more than an uneducated guess)

Harvest efficiency is limited to roughly 95.5% between solar bridge and enphase micro inverters
(Rich can reply - this is his baby)

Voltage drop on AC side after 100' sucks
(another wild statement)

(You have proof of the life of the micro inverters or just talking?)

Russ

1st answer to your question.

Temprature does effect efficiency of any inverter whether it is a string inverter or a micro inverter. String inverters have an advantage of being installed in shaded area's. While micro inverters no matter what condition attached to modules sit out where a panel sits out.

Research using thermo couplers and pyronometers have proven that direct irradiance has increased temperature. On a typical day lets say roughly 80*F a panel will absorb more heat than what the ambient outside temperature is. Depending on the day panels alone can absorb up to 5* more in temperature. How ever double layered (tempered glass) panels don't seem to react the same in temperature that single insolated glass does. this could be that the thermo coupler isn't receiving the temperature that it does from single layered glass panels. the temperature reading on double layered glass isn't as effected as single layered glass.

So even when dealing with tracking systems ( no roofs ) it would be expected that although shaded under a panel the temperature at the panel will be warmer than air temperature. On sheet metal roofs, there's been research that supports that roofs collect heat and can be up to 15* F hotter than what air temperature is at. the only roof type that radiates the least heat are white roof's.

3rd answer to your question.

As far as voltage drop consider it is a some what wild statement I'm not a genius at OHM's law, how ever I do know there is a reason why DC current fuses are calculated at 1.35% while on AC current fuses are calculated at 1.25%.

As far as the last question there will never be undeniable proof.
1.) companies don't brag about life deficiencies of there equipment
2.) Non - Compete contract clauses don't allow the release of that type of information
3.) I can just state from my own NCR reporting that micro inverters do have a higher percentage in becoming defective within 10 year life cycles VS. most reliable string inverters on the market. I think implementing the new 25year warranty on micro inverters is just going to cost the manufacturers themselves more money, or the fact that micro inverters are already dirt cheap to produce and the manufacturers do have a significant mark up.