A 220v/50Hz Grid-tie installed in a 220v/60Hz house?

[rboos]

Hi All,

I am new here, and tried to find an answer to my question thru search, but didn't find any post about this...

I recently installed two 200W panels (400W total) with a Power-Jack 600W Grid-Tie inverter, and in the manual it says it is a 220v/50Hz model.

My house is 220v/60Hz, so I am worried if this difference in Herz is going to cause any problems...

To be honest I couldn't wait to see it working and plugged it in, and it is generating around 330W in average. I also noticed the whole house consumption went around 300W down when I plugged it in, so I now it is working... and until now (4 days) nothing has blown up... the inverter is cool to the touch...

My doubt is about this frequency difference... a 50Hz Grid-tie into a 60Hz house... any advice?

Thank you in advance..

Rod - Brazil
2kW PV Grid-Tied

[Mike90250]

Sorry, a 50Hz GT inverter will not function on a 60Hz grid.

They are supposed to detect and sync only with a clean, stable frequency, and 60Hz will not enable a 50Hz unit. (or it should not)

[bidaw]

50Hz....Is that a European or Austrailian spec?

[Mike90250]

50Hz....Is that a European or Austrailian spec?

I have no idea, could be Japan too. I'm in US, and cant keep track of everywhere.

[Sunking]

This site will give you an overall picture

[bidaw]

This site will give you an overall picture

This is some good information!

Thanks!

[john p]

what does it matter where it comes from or where it was made??? Why is everyone even bothering to look for this info.; ???
I cant see how a grid tie inverter at one frequency can sync or stay connected to a grid at a different frequency.?

[rboos]

Thank you for the answers!

Actually it is installed and generating an average of 330W (from a 2x200W PV array), so somehow it is tied and working.

It completed 7 days now, and my doubt was about any (1)drawbacks it could generate (burnt lightbulbs or something) or (2)loosing some energy while converting and not synchronizing a 100%... but it seems to be working ok.

The seller sent me this model and does not have a 60Hz version to trade (of the same model), so I guess I might be loosing some percentage of the PV energy, what the GTI manages to "inject" is used and the out-of-frequency part gets lost, maybe?

What actual wattage should I get from a 400W PV array in full sunlight? 80%? 90%? Or does it actually produce the full spec wattage?

Maybe I will accept the seller idea of exchanging this one for a couple 300W - 220v/60Hz and then check if the overall wattage furnished into the grid if higher... then I would know if the frequency difference was responsible for some loss..?

Thank you again,

Rod!

[Mike90250]

400W of panels can be expected to harvest about 80% of that, yielding 320w to the inverter input. If the inverter is 95% efficient, then I'd expect the kill-a-watt to read 304 watts. You read 330W

So, either the weather there is cold, clear and breezy, keeping the panels cool and producing more power than expected, or the metering is wrong. Or you have achieved over-unity somehow. Or, the GT box is just plain consuming 330W, and not really generating.

Most of the little plug in inverters are lucky to get 90% efficiency, many are reported to be 50% - 80%. So you have a winner, if it's not a consumer.

[rboos]

Mike!

Thank you again, you are absolutelly right...

I just re-checked the screenshots I made from the wattimeter and the 330W is actually the peak I got when installed the panels (was higher Watt count in the first 24h). The seven day average is in fact 230W, I was wrong there, sorry for giving that wrong info in the first post.

I was afraid, at first, that the GT would be consuming the 230W, 'cause there should be a "minus" sign in front of the wattage on the lcd ... so I took an clip-on amperimeter to the whole-house meter and the amperage (on the phase I connected the GT) fell from 2,745A to 1.7A when I turned the GT on, but the best confirmation will be my monthly bill...

In fact the climate here is cold(ish), clear and breezy, with good insolation; but in my newby mind I might have another explanation for some wattage peaks... I got some 353W peak sometimes: maybe the 50hz/60hz difference could be messing with the precision of the kill-a-watt meter? the meter has a GT injecting 220v/50hz in one side, and a grid 220v/60hz on the other side...

Thank you again, your last post gave me the necessary math to know what should I expect from that set-up... I guess it is working as it should, the only question that might need some digging is this 50hz/60hz mix I am doing here, lol...

Rod!

[Mike90250]

Somehow, your GT inverter is managing to sync to the grid. if it tried to inject 50hz into a 60hz grid, Hover Dam will win, and your inverter would vanish into a cloud of smoke.

So far, you are lucky, if it's not consuming power, and actually pushing some into the grid.

Say 300W, for 6 hours a day - that's 1800wh day, at 15cents per kwh, almost 30 cents a day you are saving, or $9 a month.

[john p]

I dont believe it. I have tried a few modified gt inverters that were made to go up or down 5hz and after you get more than half a hz out they malfunction
I now believe this is not the facts.:-I recently installed two 200W panels (400W total) with a Power-Jack 600W Grid-Tie inverter, and in the manual it says it is a 220v/50Hz model.
My house is 220v/60Hz, so I am worried if this difference in Herz is going to cause any problems

I think the manual is incorrect.

[rboos]

Hi John!

It is interesting to notice that we end up in the same line of thinking... I was also in doubt this manual information could be trusted.

When I received the GT, it was well packed, and had a solid construction (external I mean), good overall appearance (not like an Enphase, lol) with a xerox copy of a manual, and got me thinking why it wasn't a nice printed manual...

This GT was advertised as 220v/60Hz but this copied-manual had a table of the models produced and the frequency of each one; in the table says the 600W model is 50hz. I saw another table from the same manufacturer that said the 600W model was 50/60hz (both freq)... so there is a huge chance this table in the manual has a different info than it should. I guess this chinese GTIs are produced by many different industries (despite having the same external appearance) and I got a model with the wrong copied manual... the only info on the GT is a "220v" label on the power button.

Thank you all again for helping me out on this issue, since it has been 8 days now, probably the manual has the wrong info...

Rod - Brazil.
PS: gonna re-check tomorrow with the amperimeter if it is not consuming the ~230W...

[computerpc101]

Those power jack Inverter do work in wide range.
I just got one 600W.

They are not UL.

From Tester point of view
They can work in line frequency from 45Hz to 65HZ
For 220Volts mode, they can work for wide range voltage 180V to 240V.

Those Microcontrollor inside them are quite smart, They are able to Sync to wide range of Power.

[Mike90250]

After you measure it, please let us know what the efficiency is.

Most good GT inverters are in the >95% range, reports on the cheap ones are 50-70% efficiency, increasing the break-even timeline.