SolarEdge v. Enphase it seems there are so many variables?

[Aceman]

Ok so I want to install a system about 10 to 12 Kw with battery and I am getting so many options and recommendations my head is spinning. I have read the other threads on this but they don't seem to address my issues.

I have issues with partial shade. One company recommends SolarEdge with Optimizers the other Enphase and both will do either. The one company believes because SolarEdge is more efficient because than Enphase overall it makes up for the advantage Enphase microinverters have for shaded areas. Then there is the issue of whether to install a smart panel and how many solar panels to install. One believes its more important to spend money on the battery and have 15 KW of storage over more panels. Do I install a battery that stores power only or spend the extra cash to have the one that runs the house on in a blackout. This whole thing started with purchasing a Tesla. I'm looking for opinions from knowledgable people on the pros and cons of SE v Enphase in where there is some shade, backup battery that stores power only v. a system that powers the house during a blackout. Is the Span Smart Panel worth it? If I do that do consolidate one or both fo the subpanels. One is in the living room and I want to get rid of that anyway--has only 10 breakers and easy to run the wires to the main panel.

I'm also aware of the warranty issues with SolarEdge and will be given a full 25 year. Enphase batteries have a 15 year warranty v 10 for others.

I'm not going to say money is not object but on the other hand I am not looking to save a few thousand bucks. So for example I am leaning towards paying ore for the battery that runs the house rather than one that just stores electric for use at night. Finally, the net metering in my state (CA) is not good hence the battery necessity.

[Mike 134]

Ok so I want to install a system about 10 to 12 Kw with battery and I am getting so many options and recommendations my head is spinning. I have read the other threads on this but they don't seem to address my issues.

I have issues with partial shade. One company recommends SolarEdge with Optimizers the other Enphase and both will do either. The one company believes because SolarEdge is more efficient because than Enphase overall it makes up for the advantage Enphase microinverters have for shaded areas. Then there is the issue of whether to install a smart panel and how many solar panels to install. One believes its more important to spend money on the battery and have 15 KW of storage over more panels. Do I install a battery that stores power only or spend the extra cash to have the one that runs the house on in a blackout. How many blackouts lasting more than a few hours have you had to justify the cost of batteries? This whole thing started with purchasing a Tesla. I'm looking for opinions from knowledgeable people on the pros and cons of SE v Enphase It will all be just opinions on a forum, based on people finding forums to gripe about their product. Forums do not attract posts from satisfied customers. in where there is some shade, backup battery that stores power only v. a system that powers the house during a blackout. Is the Span Smart Panel worth it? If I do that do consolidate one or both fo the subpanels. One is in the living room and I want to get rid of that anyway--has only 10 breakers and easy to run the wires to the main panel.

I'm also aware of the warranty issues with SolarEdge and will be given a full 25 year. Enphase batteries have a 15 year warranty v 10 for others.

I'm not going to say money is not object but on the other hand I am not looking to save a few thousand bucks. So for example I am leaning towards paying ore for the battery that runs the house rather than one that just stores electric for use at night. Finally, the net metering in my state (CA) is not good hence the battery necessity.

See a few thoughts in red above. There's a guy that posts on here that recommends "solar for dummies" it's a good read. Remember knowledge is power.

good luck

[J.P.M.]

As Mike suggests, download and read the dummies book. There is a lot that you don't know yet and are unaware of.
The book will generate more questions but only because you'll read things you don't know but will need to know to help you make informed decisions which it sounds (reads) like you can't do at this time.
You may even decide that once you have some informed and more objectively presented solar information, you'll be able to set some goals with reasons beside just getting PV. You'll also have a more clear and sensible path to get there.
You may even learn how to decide whether or not PV is for you. In spite of what the solar peddlers, their media shills and the pie in the sky rose colored glasses crowd would have us all believe, residential PV is neither cost effective or practical for all residential applications. Question everything you read or hear and get your own answers from reliable, unbiased resources.

I'm probably the guy Mike mentioned. I suggest the Dummies book because I got tired a long time ago of telling posters here and all my neighbors a lot of what was already in print. I don't agree with everything in the book but it's about the best non-technical solar primer out there. A bit dated maybe, but there isn't much that's new under the sun, and it's a good way to learn to walk before you run.

In the meantime, stop listening to peddlers, shysters and people who think they're experts because they got a PV system on their property but probably know squat about how it works and even less about how to figure out the probability of whether or not it's truly cost effective.

Welcome to the neighborhood and the forum of few(er) illusions.

[darkskies]

There's great advice there and it is indeed worth it to learn as much as you can (I'm still learning). The decision on whether solar is right your you and whether or not batteries make sense will really come down to your goals, needs, and environment.

Just for and idea, I can give you a tale of to installs I've had...

My first house, my goal was to try to have zero electrical bill. I already had a gas generator that did critical circuits, and felt that would be fine for us. Power outages were mostly in the Winter, and were typical a matter of hours, and once and a while a few days. I have a bunch of stock options from my employer that I could use to fund the project. The back roof of the house was South facing. I hired a company that install a SolarEdge PV system. How'd it work out?...

Pros...

• They estimated ROI to be about 7 years, and it was close to that.
• I paid nothing for electricity, and was actually banking kWh with my utility company
• System was reliable (had. a lightening strike nearby that required a reset of the unit and they added some surge protection as well)
• Price of the system, after Fed/State rebates was reasonable.
• Installation was very well done. I felt that the components used we of good quality (Iron Ridge for mounting system).

Cons...

• Unrelated to solar, but we should have upgraded our generator to be a whole house generator. I had to run extension cords to keep the UPS running for computer/router/file server, and later for my wife's CPAP machine.
• Gas generator was a PITA. Every 10 hours refilling the tank. Driving around trying to find a gas station with power, to get more gas. Ended up getting five 5 gal cans.
• The panels were on the back side of the house, which was where the prim entry for family and friends (we never shoveled the long walkway to the front). The snow would slide off the panels making for 2-3x more snow at the entrance to the door and it was now hard packed. Very difficult to clear.

Observations...

• I really knew very little about the whole PV thing.
• We really had full sun all day (as we had large trees cut down, after install), with maybe a few panels shadowed in the early morning and late night. So the need for optimizers was questionable.
• since the house was about 15 years old, when we added solar panels, I was (IMHO) smart and had the roof reshingled, before having the install. I didn't want to pay to have panels removed, reshingled, and then reapplied. I think it was good insurance.
• Got really lucky with the tariffs at the time, where it was essentially 1:1. For each kWh that I sent to the utility, I could get that kWh back at no additional cost.

Second house, I was was sold on the PV idea, and hired the same company to do the install. This time, I would use gains from previous house sale to pay towards the PV system, and wanted the same goal of no electrical bill (as rates are high in our area, and we were retiring). I wanted a whole house generator, propane in this case, so there was no maintenance when running the system, and it would run everything in the house. This location, also rural (so no power, no water), was near the end of the line, and I heard from neighbors that outages were more common that my previous house and often longer (2-5 days), again in the Winter.

In discussing the system with the installer, I opted to pay more and get a battery as well (16 kWh), as the plan was that, if there was an outage, the system would run on battery, then switch to generator, which would recharge battery (or PV would), and then back to battery. We had probably 6-8 panels out of 28 that would be shaded in the morning time, and others after about 2pm. The house was orientated SSE. Honestly, I didn't do much of my own due diligence in researching the system being installed and was backing on the installer to do another great job. ROI is expected to be 8 years.

Pros...

• Again, quality job was done by the installer on everything.
• IMHO the optimizers were useful, given the shading and the changes through the seasons.
• Great to have the whole house powered by generator.
• With a sunny day, the battery would be charged by 10am easily. Even partly cloudy days, it would charge by noon. For all but mid Summer (like now, when we have 90 degree weather), the battery would run the house all evening, so we were importing much less power from utility.
• Other than the first partial year, we were almost breaking even on our bill, and with battery and later an upgrade on inverter, we are banking kWh.

Cons...

• Be a software engineer, and now retired, I could really calculate what the yearly savings were and calculate the ROI better. It looks like ROI is going to be about 12 years, instead of 8.
• The install company owner retired and handed off the business to someone in the company, in-between when we did the first house and this house, year later. They are horrible w.r.t. responsiveness to issues.
• Fed and state incentives are lower now, and seem to be getting less and less.
• The tariffs now are not as good. I have to produce about 1/3 more power than I consume to break even (it's not 1:1 now).
• The system backup on grid fail was awful. SolarEdge indicated that the inverter supported generators, but neither I nor the installer notices the small print that said "with required firmware upgrade". Because of COVID and the supply chain issues getting a generator and battery, it was more than 7 months before we realized it did not work. It took three years to finally get it to where it is now - power goes out, system runs on battery, battery gets low, system switches to generator. There are still issues: when on generator, the battery is not charged by generator (and propane is $$$); when on generator there is no reporting of consumption of the house; and if the battery is charged by PV, when on generator, I don't if or when it would switch back to battery. I have 3 cases open with SolarEdge, which, has been really bad at resolving issues in any reasonable time. With the installer also being very unresponsive, I have to hound everyone about the issues (been almost two months more now).
• I was not getting the power generation that was expected from the system proposal. The installer upgraded the inverter, so that there was less clipping and that gives about 10kWh per day more (on a sunny day).

Observations...

• Knowing a little bit more, I did try PVWatts app, but it too, showed a much more optimistic production of the system. I accounted for the orientation and my location, but still it was off quite a bit (~15mWh vs 11.8mWh, IIRC, now with battery we are at 13 mWh and with larger inverter we will be even more this year). The installer was using the same tool (though had orientation wrong). So again, checking the installers work and not being as optimistic would have helped.
• I'm happy with the amount of power generated now.
• It was a real shock, realizing that what was a great installer, had now become a mediocre to poor installer.
• One has to REALLY scrutinize the product info from manufacturers. SolarEdge was flat out selling something they didn't have completed yet.
• I took a chance and am hoping that the 16 year old roof on this house will be fine (It looked better than the other house, but I didn't opt to replace it).
• I'm questioning if the battery was really worth it to add, versus just running on generator.

So as you can see, there are a lot of variables, even when you have some goals laid out. There will inevitably things you haven't thought about, until you have loads of experience (which I don't have).