Question on California UL rating requirement for SMA / effective April 1st 2023

[brycenesbitt]

An installer said that on April 1st, new UL regulations go into force,
and that SMA inverters currently don't meet that standard for California.

Could anyone shed light on this issue?

[solardreamer]

Could anyone shed light on this issue?

He's probably referring to the UL171SB. I would imagine SMA is working on it.

[brycenesbitt]

This one? UL1741 3rd Edition Supplement SB ?

https://www.energy.ca.gov/sites/default/files/2022-03/Addition_of_UL_1741_3rd_Ed_Supplement_SB_to_the_Solar_Equipment_Lists_ADA.pdf

[solardreamer]

That's the one.

[SunEagle]

Sounds like CA is changing the solar rules to get more control of a homeowners generation by limiting the type of inverter that will now comply.

[J.P.M.]

Sounds like CA is changing the solar rules to get more control of a homeowners generation by limiting the type of inverter that will now comply.

Maybe, but is seems to me that many/most existing/prior inverters are still on that list. SMA/Sunny Boy may be an exception.

[Ampster]

Sounds like CA is changing the solar rules to get more control of a homeowners generation by limiting the type of inverter that will now comply.

UL1741SB is not just a California requirement. It is a change in the standards of communication and yes it may give all utilities more control over complying inverters accross the nation. My SolArk already complies with UL1741SB

[bcroe]

Sounds like CA is changing the solar rules to get more control of a homeowners generation by limiting the type of inverter that will now comply.

I take that to mean, they can choose to shut you down anytime. That
would be quite a disadvantage to the solar owner, since any renewable
energy lost, is lost forever. In addition, who is to say they will not
completely abuse that power. Just check what has been in court in
IL in recent times.

My inverters have no external communication
means, and I have an identical spare set just in case. Bruce Roe

[SunEagle]

UL1741SB is not just a California requirement. It is a change in the standards of communication and yes it may give all utilities more control over complying inverters accross the nation. My SolArk already complies with UL1741SB

Good to know that a lot of existing inverters will comply. I just am worried the POCO's and local government may try to use homes as co-generators when the state can't generate enough due to them closing down power stations.

If the new rules make it safer and easier to generate your own power then great but maybe I am just a little worried since the CA POCO's want to keep changing the TOU rules.

Call me cautious.

[SunEagle]

I take that to mean, they can choose to shut you down anytime. That
would be quite a disadvantage to the solar owner, since any renewable
energy lost, is lost forever. In addition, who is to say they will not
completely abuse that power. Just check what has been in court in
IL in recent times.

My inverters have no external communication
means, and I have an identical spare set just in case. Bruce Roe

Lucky that you aren't in the state of CA. Although I see some rough weather coming your way. Stay safe.

[SunEagle]

Maybe, but is seems to me that many/most existing/prior inverters are still on that list. SMA/Sunny Boy may be an exception.

So maybe the state of CA is trying to limit some inverter types because they have invested elsewhere.

[solardreamer]

So maybe the state of CA is trying to limit some inverter types because they have invested elsewhere.

As home solar adoption grows there will times when the grid simply can't absorb all the excess solar power so the PoCo's want to be able to control it. Hawaii is probably the first state having to do this starting a few years ago when they stopped allowing new home solar installation to export excess solar power to grid.

[brycenesbitt]

As home solar adoption grows there will times when the grid simply can't absorb all the excess solar power so the PoCo's want to be able to control it. Hawaii is probably the first state having to do this starting a few years ago when they stopped allowing new home solar installation to export excess solar power to grid.

I suspect this problem... the Duck Curve... will moderate or go away with EV adoption.
The operative question is how many people can be trained or able to charge during the peak sunlight hours, rather than overnight on baseline load.

What's unfortunate for me is some of these rules apply to retrofits and expansions of existing system. It will result in perfectly good inverters getting thrown away because of regulatory reasons rather than equipment failure or true obsolescence.

[J.P.M.]

As home solar adoption grows there will times when the grid simply can't absorb all the excess solar power so the PoCo's want to be able to control it. Hawaii is probably the first state having to do this starting a few years ago when they stopped allowing new home solar installation to export excess solar power to grid.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I'd think the equipment lists (which have existed in some form for as long as I've known about them - since about 2004 or before) are more about ensuring equipment meets some recognized standards rather than controlling the flow of power to the grid as an end in itself.

[Ampster]

Good to know that a lot of existing inverters will comply. I just am worried the POCO's and local government may try to use homes as co-generators when the state can't generate enough due to them closing down power stations.

If the new rules make it safer and easier to generate your own power then great but maybe I am just a little worried since the CA POCO's want to keep changing the TOU rules.

Call me cautious.

I am cautious and skeptical of the California Investor Owned Utilities and have come to terms with the fact that the TOU rates are going to constantly change. The issue of generation in California is one of timing. During much of the day and late at night, there is plenty of capacity. The shortfalls you are reading about are from 5PM until 9PM and it has already been demonstrated last September that batteries prevented brownouts. Tesla has aggregated Powerwalls into a Virtual Power Plant which also assisted the grid. Some Powerwall owners received as much as $1.00 per kWh for that grid support. It was by choice so every participant was a voluntary contributor. I am not concerned about the IOUs draining my batteries without my permission but I am happy to help make the grid more resilient if possible. Right now I am participating in a program that compensates me for taking load off the grid at critical times.