Apsystems DS3-L Tripping due to Grid Frequency

[IslanderVT]

If this issue isn't fixed, you might try following the firmware update procedure in the manual. We had a similar trip-out mechanism with our new DS3-L's last year, and it had nothing to do with the grid. It was a firmware issue, and was corrected when the units updated by following the procedure.

[scrambler]

Testing if it is related to rule 21 is easy enough by temporarily turning that off.

But even if it is, if only two micro inverters are tripping because of it, they are likely defective (hardware or software), because all of them see the same grid and so they should all react to grid 21 or frequency limits in the same way.

[davidcheok]

davidcheok how do i go about getting to the inverter data by itself my login does not show inverter data any help.


Screenshot 2023-06-29 163939.png

Only installers have inverter data. its a different account type. You should contact your installer.

[resechalex]

The fastest reading is still the ECU. Installer accounts do not have faster readings. The service mode on the ECU will give the quickest updates of around 20-30s per update depending on the zigbee communication and non-service mode is every 8 mins to view but every 5 mins inverter updates.

It could be one of the inverters either has a different grid profile or is faulty. I recommend emailing APS.

PS only real difference between installer and non-installer is the ability to log data and having data like DC voltages and currents from each panel. Everything else is more or less the same.

Personally i prefer to use the ECU direct.


Screenshot 2023-02-02 at 10.39.51 AM.png

davidcheok how do i go about getting to the inverter data by itself my login does not show inverter data any help.


Screenshot 2023-06-29 163939.png

[bcroe]

It does sound like a problem with the inverters seeing too much voltage
into the grid. That happened here, not easy to fix.

Causes can be a combination of nominal line voltage being quite high
(as the PoCo tends to do), and additional voltage built up in the wiring
between your inverters and the grid.

Here I requested the PoCo bring down the voltage more to the legal
limit of 120/240 (was running 127/254), which helped but took a while.
But measurements revealed that the power lost in my 600 foot wiring
loop was some 9V at 60A, or 540W. Eventually I replaced all the wire
in that loop with rather oversized, to bring voltage loss to about 2V, or
120W loss. No more problems and better efficiency, even if the line
goes up again. Aluminum wire minimized the upgrade cost. Bruce Roe

[solardreamer]

Thanks, so this would be expected behavior? Something happens 1-2 shut off and go to 0W and then 5 minutes later they are back on.

Looks that way. If you check the grid profile you should see something like "start" or "reconnect" time set to 300s.

If you want, you could verify by changing the grid profile to disable volt-watt curtailment then the shut off should stop. However, the high voltage could be a sign that your PV branch wiring is too long/thin or your street transformer is not working properly.

[oregon_phil]

Thanks, so this would be expected behavior? Something happens 1-2 shut off and go to 0W and then 5 minutes later they are back on.

Here are the Rule 21 settings from APSystems

Screen Shot 2023-02-01 at 6.57.14 PM.pngScreen Shot 2023-02-01 at 6.57.27 PM.pngScreen Shot 2023-02-01 at 6.57.36 PM.png

When your voltage starts to exceed 254.4 VAC power start to ramp down and power goes to zero at 264 VAC. You only have access to data in 1 minute increments. Alot can happen in one minute. Your data shows quite a few inverters running in the 254/5 range, but none in the 260 range.

Also, I would order the data in a physically not logically. In other words, closes inverter to Grid = #1, then next closes, ... and finally #ZZ is the farthest away. Theoretically the inverter farthest away should shut down first, but that's theory. Just a thought.

[davidcheok]

... APSystems has not responded to my emails on the subject..

They only respond to queries from registered installers as priority.

DIY are not on their priority unfortunately simply because the support required is not cost effective and time consuming. They normally make installers buy large amounts of inverters so they can make them replace inverters under warranty and take all the hassle out of the consumers' hands. If 10,000 people wanted to install themselves and didnt know what they were doing, imagine the complaints they would receive and the negativity on reviews et al.

From what ive read in these forums, they do respond to DIY installers but on a much longer timeline.

[davidcheok]

I guess my concern is more that the inverters are defective and should be replaced, APSystems has not responded to my emails on the subject, 6 of the 7 inverters exhibit this issue. So if it is just a matter of replacing 6 of the 7 inverters I'd do it.

If the inverter is producing power before and after the time-out, its unlikely its defective. If it were, it would just die. If 6-7 are showing the same thing, its likely its a grid profile mismatch or a grid issue. i would research more into it and maybe write in to the grid provider submitting the grid profile to them and asking them if it is correct.

[Jefferx]

I think the question I would ask myself is how long does the shutdown last for and is this loss within that period worth the hassle and risk of messing with the default/recommended/compulsory settings as per rule 21? If its only 5 mins, I wouldnt bother because you lose a few kW for a few minutes and save the hassle. If its over a few hours then yes, its worth going deeper into.

I guess my concern is more that the inverters are defective and should be replaced, APSystems has not responded to my emails on the subject, 6 of the 7 inverters exhibit this issue. So if it is just a matter of replacing 6 of the 7 inverters I'd do it.

[davidcheok]

I think the question I would ask myself is how long does the shutdown last for and is this loss within that period worth the hassle and risk of messing with the default/recommended/compulsory settings as per rule 21? If its only 5 mins, I wouldnt bother because you lose a few kW for a few minutes and save the hassle. If its over a few hours then yes, its worth going deeper into.

[Jefferx]

It looks more like a volt-watt curtailment behavior as specified by the the CA Rule 21 grid profile. I am pretty sure VW is active at 254V and it may even start at 252V.

Thanks, so this would be expected behavior? Something happens 1-2 shut off and go to 0W and then 5 minutes later they are back on.

Here are the Rule 21 settings from APSystems

Screen Shot 2023-02-01 at 6.57.14 PM.pngScreen Shot 2023-02-01 at 6.57.27 PM.pngScreen Shot 2023-02-01 at 6.57.36 PM.png

[solardreamer]

It looks more like a volt-watt curtailment behavior as specified by the the CA Rule 21 grid profile. I am pretty sure VW is active at 254V and it may even start at 252V.

[davidcheok]

Also try download EMA manager and register for a DIY installer account.

[davidcheok]

Screenshot 2022-12-13 at 1.24.05 PM.png Something useful.

Be careful about the zigbee channel settings. Messing those up is a headache. Wouldnt touch those if they are working properly.