S-5! metal roofing RibBrackets IS $1000 of racking underneath needed?

[khanh dam]

Many installers are probably familiar with S-5! metal roofing brackets and clamps that allow one to directly install solar panels to a standing seam roof with out needing a rack. They have been selling these RibBrackets to use on corrugated or trapezoidal shaped ribbed roof panels as well that I am considering for an install.

There is only about 4" clearance from bottom of panels to top of roof, but enough to connect the wires.

I have seen people use S-5! brackets and then put rails on top of it. Why is this done? Is it simply to give greater roof height? Economically it adds about $1000 or more for a 10k install.

[ButchDeal]

Railless systems are pretty weak in most installs and may not pass code depending on the up lift requirements.
Rails add rigidity and structure to the system as well as allow a single mount to fail without the entire system failing.
Keep in mind that the S5 clamps are clamping to the roofing which is not designed for much uplift force (not much holding it on) .

[khanh dam]

Not sure if I follow that logic, A failed rail could in theory take out an entire row of solar panels. If anything having four S-5! clamps per panel seems like it would be less prone to multiple failures. This is typically the case of railess systems. Downside is more roof penetrations and thus long term possible water leaks latter on. Only one post on using the RibBrackets on this forum. My guess is 90% of the roofs are cheap asphalt and the rest are a mix of standing seam metal, tile, slate, etc wtih ribbed architectural panels being one of the least used HOME roofing due to asthetics.

No roofing is designed for big solar panels, that is why we have racking companies do tests to see if their engineered solutions work. Below is S5! testing almost 400 lbs of force per panel. wonder how that compares to a Rail based racking system? Now you've got my curiosity.

4 clamps have ultimate load of 1175 lbs and with safety factor of 3 that is 391.7 lbs per panel
Sheeting 26 ga Steel
1/4" (6.3mm) Diameter-1"
(25mm) Length-5/16" (8 mm)
Hex head with rubber sealing

[ButchDeal]

The rail will go across the tin roofing and hit multiple connections. Rails are just long pieces of metal and don't often fail.
Without the tails the pv modules is connected to the same piece of tin roofing on one edge and few connections of that tin to the house, a very weak point.

without the rail you do not have a distributed system of attachement you have a bunch of indeoendent weak oints any one of which will bring the entire structure down.

Most installers would do a railed system in too of S5,

also your strength figures are for the S5 to the tin roof but then you have the tin roof to the house with just wood screws into wood, any one could be weak..
pull out now the thing starts to be a flexible sail ...
rails make it ridged and span and link together multiple attachements

[khanh dam]

yes I get what you are saying, but you are saying it in a blatantly biased way. one can screw into joists/rafters/ etc to make a roof/ s5 connection more solid, just like one doesn't' attach rails to 7/16" thick osb, it goes into the solid wood right?

Also industry standard techniques to make metal roofing secure to the roof structure as well

.. If one attached Racking not per instructions it would fail to. Have you heard of S5! failing? Why did it fail? Why does it not fail?. that would be useful info.If you dont' like it that is fine, but use logical reasons, like installers tend to not use enough screws and therefore it fails. . any product can fail if installed incorrectly or in the wrong application.

[ButchDeal]

You were asking about the S5 standing ridge clamps which do not penetrate the metal roof so there is no way to attach to rafters to make them more solid

[khanh dam]

you attach the metal roofing to the rafters. and one can use longer screws if one wanted to as well. if there are failures doing the manufacturer's recommended way then I'll be the first one to want to know about it, but seems like their scientific analysis of the loads makes safe sense to me when installed properly.

[ButchDeal]

you attach the metal roofing to the rafters. and one can use longer screws if one wanted to as well. if there are failures doing the manufacturer's recommended way then I'll be the first one to want to know about it, but seems like their scientific analysis of the loads makes safe sense to me when installed properly.

Most solar os not installed at the same time as the standing ridge roofing being installed, generally solar is installed well after the roofing is done.
The standing ridge roofing is not generally installed into the rafters but roof decking or furring strips as well. The standing ridge roofing manufacturers do not have recommendations for attaching solar to the roofing...

[khanh dam]

standing seam roofing is some of the best roofing there is and many people have used S5! mounts on standing seam no problem. it is much stronger than PBR panels due to being about 1/3 as wide, and needing about 3x more fasteners.

This post is about PBR or agricultural panels which I have heard less about. You have made your opinion clear that you do not like the system, but your reasoning is hallow. No roofing company has "recommendations for attaching solar to their roofing" that is why solar panel mounting companies exist to create the product. I do not know how other companies install PBR Roofing, but I always screw it into rafters as much as possible.

I will give some feedback after I mount this 10KW project hopefully this Fall. It will save $1000 in racking costs and it looks like a good product to me.