Building Reserve and Using KWH

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  • bcroe
    Solar Fanatic
    • Jan 2012
    • 5202

    Net Metering year 11 concluded, generated about 28,800 kWh.
    Still running the original panels and inverters. With the relatively
    warm and somewhat less cloudy winter, the surplus was around
    5,600 kWh given as a gift to the PoCo. The only original wiring
    is the 220 ft buried DC conductors between the combiner box
    and the inverters. Bruce Roe

    Comment

    • Rade
      Solar Fanatic
      • Aug 2023
      • 130

      Those are very good numbers! So my question is; you said you gifted 5,600kW back to the PoCo. Did the PoCo wipe your credits to zero on your interconnect anniversary?

      I'm coming up on my 1st anniversary on May 10; I'm kinda hesitant to celebrate for the moment. As I often complain, our house is a bit of a power hog and right now, I am at a 1,220kW deficit if we are going to break even next winter. But the weather is warming, the electric furnace has been turned off and our power meter is finally, consistently clicking downward (more power back to the grid than the house is using). >If< the weather continues to cooperate, we may make up that deficit by our anniversary. In May of last year, we generated 1,900kW of power (peak for the year).

      And that brings me back to my question - Our anniversary is on May 10. I'm wondering if any credits I am (finally) generating will be zeroed out at that time? No one in any know seems to be able to answer that; our PoCo website only states that my credits will continue to accrue and then be used towards standard billing once we have to begin pulling from the grid. I guess I will find out on May 12 when the next statement comes in. We churned through our credits by February.

      I think it was you who advised to just be patient; thank you! Yes, all in all, during the first 4 or so months, we had about a month total of new system configuration bugs that knocked our generation down during peak sun season. The bugs seem to have been worked out and our solar architecture has been running rather well for many months now. Looking forward to... not being so damn obsessive about power consumption.



      Rade
      Rade Radosevich-Slay
      Tiverton, RI

      Comment

      • Mike 134
        Solar Fanatic
        • Jan 2022
        • 417

        Northern Illinois ComEd is the power company for me. If i have a surplus on my April bill it just goes POOF!!! Not even a thank you for the free KWHs from the power company. Then the "new year" starts again building credits (I hope).

        Comment

        • bcroe
          Solar Fanatic
          • Jan 2012
          • 5202

          Originally posted by Rade
          Those are very good numbers! So my question is; you
          said you gifted 5,600kW back to the PoCo. Did the PoCo wipe your credits to
          zero on your interconnect anniversary? Rade
          I started out pretty obsessive about energy consumption
          when I moved here in 2004. I tracked down every load on
          some 60 circuits, and was eventually able to eliminate some
          240W of Vampire loads, coming to some 2100 kWh a year.
          Many of these loads were outside the house (garage door
          opener, attic fan, etc), so they did not even contribute at an
          inefficient level to heating the house. Many were reduced
          from 4 or 15W, to well under 1W. All this was done before
          going solar in 2013. In 2018 use of mini split heat pumps
          allowed adding in without energy purchases, some items
          previously not allowed, including frequent air circulation
          thru my electronic air filter, a summer time dehumidifier,
          and continuously warming a shop building.

          I did not give the PoCo back 5600 kW, the most power I can
          generate is 15kW. I did accumulate an energy surplus of
          5600 kWHOURs by the (April 2) reset day, which means
          starting the next Net Metering year at zero under my plan.
          Surplus is a gift to the PoCo, not to worry as it cost me
          nothing extra to generate. This is a zero carbon footprint,
          zero energy purchase operation, not a for profit. Bruce Roe
          Last edited by bcroe; 04-16-2024, 09:21 AM.

          Comment

          • azdave
            Moderator
            • Oct 2014
            • 775

            Originally posted by Rade
            And that brings me back to my question - Our anniversary is on May 10. I'm wondering if any credits I am (finally) generating will be zeroed out at that time? No one in any know seems to be able to answer that; our PoCo website only states that my credits will continue to accrue and then be used towards standard billing once we have to begin pulling from the grid. I guess I will find out on May 12 when the next statement comes in. We churned through our credits by February.
            Don't you have a copy of the interconnect contract you signed? No one here will known that answer since we can't see what your agreement says. There is no "standard" grid-tie agreement that all POCO's use and many newer agreements are far less beneficial to the consumer.

            I'm in the desert southwest so winter is when I build up reserve. My anniversary date is the end of April and the usual 2500-3000kWh excess I have banked around then is either paid out as cash or appears as a credit on my statement. I am not allowed to build up an unlimited amount of reserve kWh year after year but at least I get the wholesale value for it once per year. In the initial contract years, there was very little reserve to pay out but with the kids moving out and other lifestyle changes, I now receive enough credit in April to cover my monthly fixed connection fees for the next 12 months so I haven't sent a single payment to my POCO in almost 3 years. I reached ROI at just over 6 years and still have 11 years on that contract.

            Dave W. Gilbert AZ
            6.63kW grid-tie owner

            Comment

            • Rade
              Solar Fanatic
              • Aug 2023
              • 130

              Originally posted by azdave

              Don't you have a copy of the interconnect contract you signed? No one here will known that answer since we can't see what your agreement says. There is no "standard" grid-tie agreement that all POCO's use and many newer agreements are far less beneficial to the consumer.
              My agreement only states that the credits will continue to accrue, and be used to offset grid usage when not producing sufficient energy. As I mentioned, we blew through last seasons credits by February and I've had three electric bills, though the last one was only $36.
              Rade Radosevich-Slay
              Tiverton, RI

              Comment

              • azdave
                Moderator
                • Oct 2014
                • 775

                Originally posted by Rade

                My agreement only states that the credits will continue to accrue, and be used to offset grid usage when not producing sufficient energy. As I mentioned, we blew through last seasons credits by February and I've had three electric bills, though the last one was only $36.
                I've heard there are some grid-tie contracts where the banked energy just continues to accumulate year after year. That would be better, in my opinion, as I would rather have the full value to use later as opposed to receiving a wholesale buyout annually.
                Dave W. Gilbert AZ
                6.63kW grid-tie owner

                Comment

                • Rade
                  Solar Fanatic
                  • Aug 2023
                  • 130

                  azdave - I wholly agree! I am very interested to see what our May and June statements offer.

                  Other than what my interconnect agreement states ("...credits accrue until used"), I cannot get any more information. One thing about my solar architecture is that it was modeled on the worst month of electrical usage we had. We came online on May 10 2023 and June showed the first net credits. I suspect that the system will generate and bank enough power to deplete the credits by next April when we start to generate more than we are using.

                  Rade Radosevich-Slay
                  Tiverton, RI

                  Comment

                  • oregon_phil
                    Solar Fanatic
                    • Jan 2019
                    • 497

                    I am not a lawyer but RI law is available on line. Some great night time reading for Rhode Island Net Metering:
                    R.I. Gen. Laws ยง 39-26.4-3

                    My reading of it: 12 month annual true up recommended, but not required. It is up to the specific utility to define the exact plan. Blah, blah, blah, if you have too many credits they won't pay/credit you more than 25% over your actual annual usage.

                    One interesting line give the utility a way to change the plan with enough cause.
                    "Should there be a material change in circumstances at the eligible net-metering system site or associated accounts during the twelve-month (12) period, the estimates and credits may be adjusted by the electric distribution company during the reconciliation period."

                    This is pretty dense reading and really should be interpreted by the net metering liaison for your POCO.

                    I find it hard to believe a POCO can't give a customer the hard facts on how they will or won't be billed since somebody has to write the program to generate the bills. How do you write a program without having a spec?

                    Just my 2cents.

                    Comment

                    • J.P.M.
                      Solar Fanatic
                      • Aug 2013
                      • 14982

                      Dave: Add my $0.02: Seems to me that POCO policies aren't written to be understandable by POCO customers - just the opposite - they're written in such a way so as to keep the POCO out of a lawsuit as well as be a roadblock to understanding.

                      Further, it also seems to me that any POCO's rules as they apply to net metering in particular are always written so as to be as difficult to understand as possible and also usually so that they favor the POCO in cases where interpretation is necessary.

                      Don't forget that PV and other distributed generation methods are a real PITA for POCOs.
                      Pardon the rhetorical question but If so, what incentive do they (the POCOs) have to be one iota more cooperative to PV system owners than they are required to be by law ? No surprises there.

                      Comment

                      • Rade
                        Solar Fanatic
                        • Aug 2023
                        • 130

                        Originally posted by oregon_phil
                        I am not a lawyer but RI law is available on line. Some great night time reading for Rhode Island Net Metering:
                        R.I. Gen. Laws ยง 39-26.4-3

                        My reading of it: 12 month annual true up recommended, but not required. It is up to the specific utility to define the exact plan. Blah, blah, blah, if you have too many credits they won't pay/credit you more than 25% over your actual annual usage.

                        One interesting line give the utility a way to change the plan with enough cause.
                        "Should there be a material change in circumstances at the eligible net-metering system site or associated accounts during the twelve-month (12) period, the estimates and credits may be adjusted by the electric distribution company during the reconciliation period."

                        This is pretty dense reading and really should be interpreted by the net metering liaison for your POCO.

                        I find it hard to believe a POCO can't give a customer the hard facts on how they will or won't be billed since somebody has to write the program to generate the bills. How do you write a program without having a spec?

                        Just my 2cents.
                        Thanks for the information! Did not think to look at the RI statutes. I will look further into it. Rade
                        Rade Radosevich-Slay
                        Tiverton, RI

                        Comment

                        • DanS26
                          Solar Fanatic
                          • Dec 2011
                          • 979

                          Hey Bruce,

                          Just got word from a Nyle representative that the current DOE regulations will preclude them from releasing a residential heat pump water heater addon device for the foreseeable future. This is very disappointing since they were in development of replacement unit for the Geyser RO.

                          Not sure why or what is causing the problems with the DOE regulations.

                          I installed the Geyser RO in 2012 and run it only in the daytime during solar production. I replaced a relay switch about 5 years ago and bypassed a faulty high pressure safety switch last year. I use a current transformer to monitor the compressor amp draw to now monitor safe operation in lew of the safety switch. Not recommended unless you like to monitor things. It just keeps chugging along and produces all the hot water I need for pennies a day. I asked Nyle if they would provide a supply of off the shelf spare parts since they apparently will not be needing them in the future. Somewhat complicated to work on since it is a closed system that most DIY'ers would not tackle.

                          Comment

                          • DanS26
                            Solar Fanatic
                            • Dec 2011
                            • 979

                            Here is what the Nyle rep says........

                            "It is (disappointing), feel free to let your congressmen know that you would like the DOE to qualify heat pumps, sold without storage, to qualify for energy star. If the DOE makes this change we would work on releasing a residential heat pump again."

                            Comment

                            • bcroe
                              Solar Fanatic
                              • Jan 2012
                              • 5202

                              In my 12th year of HVAC and electric being solar powered, things
                              are not too exciting. The same pair of 7.5KW Fronious inverters
                              providing Net Metering, remain in service. Another identical pair
                              remain as backup, one is mounted and could be switched into
                              service by reconnecting a pair of wires.

                              With regular attention to energy efficiency, the use of Heat Pumps
                              year around has left enough surplus energy to do several luxury
                              things. The backup propane furnace remains out of service, but
                              the (recently replaced) air circulation blower is run for a fraction of
                              every hour. This allows a large electronic air filter to minimize dust
                              in the air. Use of a central vacuum with outside exhaust does the
                              same. And I run a dehumidifier.

                              One of my goals is to avoid failures resulting in a crises situation,
                              such as the furnace quiting in winter. The HPs around the house
                              have done this very well, and the air circulation evens out temps
                              if one is not running. I am now testing to see what kind of lifetime
                              they will provide. The installed capacity would be considered excess
                              by some, but serves my goals. First, I can make it through the very
                              coldest nights without inefficient electric resistance auxillary heat
                              (though that was initially used and is in standby). Loss of an HPs
                              capacity can be covered by the others, till a convenient service time.
                              And I expect that not working too hard, HP life will be extended. I
                              believe the efficiency is not affected much by greater capacity.

                              Realize the $ cost of a DIY mini split is less than half the cost of
                              hiring the job. A replacement with all the support parts in place,
                              would be even less $ or time.

                              After quite a few years waiting for a Nyle Geyser water heater HP
                              attachment to be available, I give up and am going another way.
                              The cost of my propane water heating keeps rising, meanwhile I
                              gave the PoCo some 5000 kWh of energy at April true up. I am
                              tired of water heaters that rust through in a few years. And my
                              propane burner recently quit, the flame detector failed to keep it
                              lit. I cleaned it for now, actually have a backup on the shelf, but
                              better to use my surplus kWh and stop buying any propane.

                              So I bought a Stainless Steel tank, lifetime tank electric Water Heater.
                              It might actually require more than my kWh surplus, better that than
                              giving kWh away and buying propane. Once it is in service, I will
                              again be investigating ways to couple in an HP. I doubt the HP WHs
                              come in SS, and I do not trust them long term.

                              The WH could be regarded as a small energy storage unit, something
                              my Net Metering arrangement does not have. So other ways of
                              increasing efficiency might be possible. Remember my array
                              inverters run in clipping up to 8 hours on sunny days. Pulling some
                              water heating DC direct from the array could pull the inverters out of
                              clipping, getting an increased total energy for that time. If that worked,
                              could even throw up a few more south facing panels just for helping
                              heat water.

                              Working near the inverters a couple days ago, it was a pleasure to
                              note how well they performed under lighter clouding. Inverters would
                              run at near full power, to near half if the clouds got more severe. This
                              all day long, turned in 100 kWh for the day. My day record for the
                              15 kW plant is 157 kWh. I must point out this is possible with panels
                              becoming so cheap, catching maximum sun at all hours. Trackers
                              were used to try and do this when panels were far more expensive,
                              but a tracker cannot compensate this way for clouds.

                              Bruce Roe

                              Comment

                              • solar pete
                                Administrator
                                • May 2014
                                • 1820

                                Hi Bruce,

                                I always enjoy reading your reports, thanks for sharing mate, cheers

                                Comment

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