Building Reserve and Using KWH

[bcroe]

Here is an interview with Ryan Hamilton the President of Nyle Water Heating Systems.

I knew Ryan when he worked for Wood-Mizer here in Indiana earlier in his career.

Thanks, I heard that when they sent me a note. I was hoping they were announcing availability.

[DanS26]

Here is an interview with Ryan Hamilton the President of Nyle Water Heating Systems. If you are interested in HP water systems this is very good information of where this technology is going..........

https://www.buzzsprout.com/939484/3534625-episode-5-nyle-heat-pump-water-heaters-with-ryan-hamilton

I knew Ryan when he worked for Wood-Mizer here in Indiana earlier in his career.

[Ampster]

The dryer was $1243 including tax and delivery, certainly not the cheapest. Thanks for the info,
I like the idea of a water heating HP being separate from the tank, and easily attached. Bruce Roe

That is expensive for a dryer but the payback has got to be pretty good. I think my existing dryer consumes 4kWh per load. For me the other advantage is I could run it off my Outback Skybox anytime.
I did not mention that my first heat pump water heater was actually one that was retrofitted to an existing electric water heater. That manufacturer was AirTap and has since gone out of business. I installed that one in 2011 and it is still going strong. .The other name was NYLE but they have gotten out of the residential market.

[bcroe]

Three years ago when I needed to purchase a dryer I tried to find a reasonably priced one and was not successful. I am glad the technology is progressing. I may be moving to a new place in the next six months and am encouraged to know that I may be able to find one at a reasonable price. It sure does offer flexibility in terms of venting.

As an aside on heat pump water heaters, my GeoSpring finally gave up the ghost. It ended up lasting just 6 years and it was the heat pump mechanism that failed. I understand why GE sold that part of their business. I could have nursed it along but I got a good deal on a Ruud which is the same as Rheem.and I have now installed 3 of those in the past four years in various properties and they are far superior to the GeoSpring.

The dryer was $1243 including tax and delivery, certainly not the cheapest. Thanks for the info,
I like the idea of a water heating HP being separate from the tank, and easily attached. Bruce Roe

[Ampster]

Thanks for the update ln the heat pump dryer. Three years ago when I needed to purchase a dryer I tried to find a reasonably priced one and was not successful. I am glad the technology is progressing. I may be moving to a new place in the next six months and am encouraged to know that I may be able to find one at a reasonable price. It sure does offer flexibility in terms of venting. I do have an energy saver mode on my existing electric dryer but that just means it takes twice as long to dry clothes. Sometimes I use that during the day because that energy saver kWh consumption is just under the production of my panels so it gives me net consumption. I already have several hundred dollars worth of NEM credits going into my February True Up so there is no reason for me to build reserve at this point.
As an aside on heat pump water heaters, my GeoSpring finally gave up the ghost. It ended up lasting just 6 years and it was the heat pump mechanism that failed. I understand why GE sold that part of their business. I could have nursed it along but I got a good deal on a Ruud which is the same as Rheem.and I have now installed 3 of those in the past four years in various properties and they are far superior to the GeoSpring.

[bcroe]

A few operational comments on the unvented 7 cu ft clothes dryer. Energy consumption is
about 1 KWH per run, a trivial amount from the solar array. The peak temp might be a bit
lower than the previous propane dryer, it runs are about twice as long. It does have a moisture
detector shutoff option, a moisture drain, and filters need to be cleaned more often. In winter
that heat all remains in the house, no blowing hot air outside. I needed to reverse the front
loading door, 26 screws.

When dried clothes get left in overnight, no cold damp air comes back in from an outside vent.
In this situation I set it to run again at Max Temp and Max Moisture Removal. In perhaps 5
minutes it warms up and the moisture detector run cutoff shuts it down, no more guessing
how long is enough.

Next to the dryer is the last regularly used propane device, a high efficiency water heater. The
efficiency is not so high in my view, the Vampire electric draw was too high (before modified), and
the blower could be seen running backwards as cold winter air would come in the vent. I am
on the waiting list for a Nyle heat pump water heater which may attached to take over most but
not all water heating. This unit would help de humidify the basement, partly taking over that
function from a dehumidifier. Farther in the future the Nyle should transfer to an electric water
heater.

Meanwhile it is very pleasant to visit the car shop and not need to get it heated up from ambient
for a job. The snow blower 4WD tractor is much happier to perform, and to melt clean afterwords.
This thanks to an 18,000 BTU heat pump which maintains an ideal 60s F temp most of the time,
still well above freezing in the most extreme lows. The propane backup furnaces here and in the
house have not been run in quite a while.

A comment about posting. I write some posts off line and then copy them into WRITE SOMETHING.
My PASTE function may not instantly work, but If a character is typed first, the PASTE command
then seems to be fine, I edit out the extra character. Bruce Roe

[DanS26]

Here I'm using the DROKs to monitor my EV circuit in my garage.......


EV Circuit Monitor-001.jpg
Today is my one year anniversary of EV ownership. My EV experience has exceeded my expectations in large measure.....it truly is the future of transportation.

[bcroe]

I think its important to balance the loads on my 10kW generator.

Agreed, balanced loads are best. My dryer I believe is the first product with these capabilities, and I expect
when a later version is developed, it will be more balanced. But I waited quite a while for this one, and am
not waiting any longer. Bruce Roe

[DanS26]

I use a set of the older DROK models to monitor split phases from my pad mounted generator. I think its important to balance the loads on my 10kW generator.

Monitoring.JPG

[bcroe]

240VAC stuff is outside the capabilities of my KILL-A-WATT. Based on the recommendation by DanS26
I decide to try that DROK 6-IN-1 MULTIMETER --- voltage, current, power, power factor, frequency and
KWH. The 240VAC heat pump clothes dryer has different loading on the 2 halves of 240VAC, so I set up
a pair which monitor each. For 2 wire 240VAC loads there is a switch, to allow one meter to monitor all
with the other meter off.


DualPwrM3.JPG


DualPwrM4.JPG


Measurements. The dual meter pair consumed 1.7W itself, the dryer 0.9W vampire load. When started
up the dryer used about 1500W on one side, half that on the other, power factor near 1. After a few
minutes running it dropped down to a pretty steady 800W and 400W, power factor more like 0.8. The
run was for about 1.6 hr, with moisture sensing, using close to 1.9 KWH total. I am informed overall it
was a great light show. But the (reversible) door hinges are on the wrong side.

Meanwhile am getting much more sun than predicted this month, with warmer temps am still building a
bit more KWH reserve. Usually the slide down starts about 1 Nov. Across the river are some power
outages from the overnight storm, but here the array is cranking out 15KW. Bruce Roe

[Mike90250]

I just found out, hardware store grade propane for my plumbing, looses its gas pressure when out in my
shed near freezing. Had to leave it in a heated building for a while to proceed. Must be different than
what is in the 500 gal tank outside.

Same grade, but it's the surface area of the puddle of propane in the tank, the little one only has a small amount of area to boil off vapor, the big tank has lots lots of surface area to get vapor from, and when it's cold enough, it won't be able to keep up either

https://propane.com/safety/safety-articles/effects-of-temperature-and-pressure-propane-vapor-demand/

PropaneVaporPressure temp.jpg

[bcroe]

The Oct PoCo net metering bill arrived, showed the KWH reserve starting toward winter near 14,000
KWH, about right. One more week of mostly warm and sun to build on that, before serious cold.

The use of Energy Star appliances has contributed a lot to reducing energy consumption here. Those
are all electrically powered, the universal energy management technology, and the one my solar net
metering system embraces. Most of the electric appliances have been up graded to Energy Star units.
The apparently 4 decade old electric stove remains, and the ancient microwave has been modified to
draw ZERO vampire energy until the door is opened.

I have been watching for high efficiency electric replacements for the 2 remaining propane appliances
here, water heater and clothes dryer. Much rather do those functions using my available, surplus KWH,
than buy more propane.

I did not like seeing the propane flame exhaust heat blowing outside in the winter. So an unvented
clothes dryer with over 7 cu ft capacity was needed. The PoCo has been trying to steer me into high
priced suppliers, and finally they showed a model meeting my needs, the full size instead of so many
4 cu ft unvented. It is a Whirlpool-WHD560CHW, another electronic marvel. It was far from the top
of the PoCo recommendations, and I found a much better price for it (including delivery) locally.



Whirlpool.JPG


I hooked up this UNVENTED heat pump hybrid electric dryer and did a load. Very easy to connect, just a
30A line and a drain hose. Apparently its heat pump takes heat from the surrounding air, to dry clothes.
That heat energy is recirculated instead of constantly blowing out of the house. Finally, whatever energy
was used remains to heat the house in winter, the clothes line is still functional when the weather suits in
summer. It takes perhaps 50% to 100% longer to finish than the propane unit, I can wait. No more cold
air coming in from the outdoor vent all the rest of the time.

It dumps condensate down the drain. My clamp on ammeter shows unbalanced 240VAC drain, significant
current running down the neutral wire. Am guessing it uses a 120VAC motor, but a 240VAC heat pump.
Not ideal, but it works, wants a 4 wire cord, 30A breaker. It will be a bit more complex to measure the
KWH used per load, and I would like to see the variations on each line as it progresses.

Now the only propane device being used (propane furnace is only a standby backup) is the water heater.
I would like to attach a Nyle Water Heating - Geyser heat pump model, but a revised model will not be
available till 2021. It can be moved from one heater (gas or electric) to the next if (WHEN) a tank fails.

I just found out, hardware store grade propane for my plumbing, looses its gas pressure when out in my
shed near freezing. Had to leave it in a heated building for a while to proceed. Must be different than
what is in the 500 gal tank outside. Bruce Roe

[DanS26]

Pretty cool, and cheap. A number of such meters have been worked into equipment
here. Whenever I get an AC watt meter, I connect a big cap to draw current with a
zero power factor. A good meter reads zero, just multiplying the A and V will be wrong.
Bruce Roe

Their 6 in 1 meter indicates the PF......for $21 its a good deal........

https://www.amazon.com/DROK-Frequency-Electric-Voltmeter-Multimeter/dp/B07YC1XHKQ?ref_=ast_sto_dp

[bcroe]

I use these little meters all over the place, they are accurate and inexpensive..........

Pretty cool, and cheap. A number of such meters have been worked into equipment
here. Whenever I get an AC watt meter, I connect a big cap to draw current with a
zero power factor. A good meter reads zero, just multiplying the A and V will be wrong.
Bruce Roe

[J.P.M.]

I use these little meters all over the place, they are accurate and inexpensive..........

https://www.amazon.com/drok

Price looks right. How did you verify their accuracy ? Any accuracy number estimates ?

Thanks in advance.

J.P.M.