enphase s280 with LG315N1C-G4

[38kW]

Don't worry, the clipping will probably stop as summer comes in and temperatures go up. The amount of energy you are losing is likely to be insignificant in the grand scheme of things.. if you know the azimuth and tilt of the array, PVWatts can help quantify what that loss might be in a typical year. The efficiency of those panels is paying off every non-clipped hour of the day, more than compensating for any clipped energy.

Last week I received permission to operate my system addition with 56 LG 315s and Enphase S280s. This is an addition to a ground mount system with 70 SolarWorld 255 with Enphase M215 installed in 2013. The DC/AC ratio of the new system is 112.5% vs. 118.6% for the original system so I would expect to see more clipping with the M215s. Typically, the SolarWorld system with a 180 azimuth & 7 deg tilt maxes out in late April to early May at 120 kWh produced. I only saw this level two or three days a year with cool temperatures. The combined system is regular producing 240 kWh per day. Looking at the hourly graphs, I would see the hint of a plateau indicating some clipping on these 2 or 3 days per year. The LG 315s with the S280 inverters seem to get up to max output earlier and stay there longer. There is a slight plateau on the graphs for maybe 90 minutes at midday.
When I checked the production meters, the new system at 17.36 kW DC is outperforming the original system at 17.85 kW DC. Over the last four days, production averaged 112.5 kWh for the LGs and 97 kWh for the SolarWorld.array. Having two nearly equally sized systems to compare with Enphase reporting should be interesting.

BTW, I used SAM to model the system expansion and it shows zero inverter clipping loss due to power limit with the LG 315 & Enphase S280 pairing. One other interesting compare, the M215s actually max out at 225 watts whereas I have not seen the S280s exceed the 280 watt rating.

[J.P.M.]

Last week I received permission to operate my system addition with 56 LG 315s and Enphase S280s. This is an addition to a ground mount system with 70 SolarWorld 255 with Enphase M215 installed in 2013. The DC/AC ratio of the new system is 112.5% vs. 118.6% for the original system so I would expect to see more clipping with the M215s. Typically, the SolarWorld system with a 180 azimuth & 7 deg tilt maxes out in late April to early May at 120 kWh produced. I only saw this level two or three days a year with cool temperatures. The combined system is regular producing 240 kWh per day. Looking at the hourly graphs, I would see the hint of a plateau indicating some clipping on these 2 or 3 days per year. The LG 315s with the S280 inverters seem to get up to max output earlier and stay there longer. There is a slight plateau on the graphs for maybe 90 minutes at midday.
When I checked the production meters, the new system at 17.36 kW DC is outperforming the original system at 17.85 kW DC. Over the last four days, production averaged 112.5 kWh for the LGs and 97 kWh for the SolarWorld.array. Having two nearly equally sized systems to compare with Enphase reporting should be interesting.

BTW, I used SAM to model the system expansion and it shows zero inverter clipping loss due to power limit with the LG 315 & Enphase S280 pairing. One other interesting compare, the M215s actually max out at 225 watts whereas I have not seen the S280s exceed the 280 watt rating.

Interesting info, particularly for me anyway, the SAM estimates. Thanx.

[ButchDeal]

Last week I received permission to operate my system addition with 56 LG 315s and Enphase S280s. This is an addition to a ground mount system with 70 SolarWorld 255 with Enphase M215 installed in 2013. The DC/AC ratio of the new system is 112.5% vs. 118.6% for the original system so I would expect to see more clipping with the M215s. Typically, the SolarWorld system with a 180 azimuth & 7 deg tilt maxes out in late April to early May at 120 kWh produced. I only saw this level two or three days a year with cool temperatures. The combined system is regular producing 240 kWh per day. Looking at the hourly graphs, I would see the hint of a plateau indicating some clipping on these 2 or 3 days per year. The LG 315s with the S280 inverters seem to get up to max output earlier and stay there longer. There is a slight plateau on the graphs for maybe 90 minutes at midday.
When I checked the production meters, the new system at 17.36 kW DC is outperforming the original system at 17.85 kW DC. Over the last four days, production averaged 112.5 kWh for the LGs and 97 kWh for the SolarWorld.array. Having two nearly equally sized systems to compare with Enphase reporting should be interesting.

BTW, I used SAM to model the system expansion and it shows zero inverter clipping loss due to power limit with the LG 315 & Enphase S280 pairing. One other interesting compare, the M215s actually max out at 225 watts whereas I have not seen the S280s exceed the 280 watt rating.

The M215 can go up to 225W
the M250 and S280 are limited to 250w and 280w respectivly.

you might see some clipping on the S280/LG315 in a cold environment but likely pretty small as the PTC on the LG315 is 287.5w

[38kW]

Interesting info, particularly for me anyway, the SAM estimates. Thanx.

SAM estimate of solar expansion = 31,528 kWh per year
14 LG 315s @ 213 azimuth 15 deg tilt
42 LG 315s @ 168 azimuth 15 deg tilt

SAM was necessary because PVWatts can't model a system with existing solar. With SAM, I was able to input my actual hourly production/consumption from APS (local POCO).
Now that I'm producing all of expected usage, I have switched from TOU to standard rate. Estimated payback is 8.8 years. LCOE (real) 1.87 cents/kWh with 25 year mortgage @ 4%
Install was $43,700 less $1,800 roof coating = $41,900 / 17.36 kW DC = $2.41/kWh in Phoenix area before incentives.

[J.P.M.]

SAM estimate of solar expansion = 31,528 kWh per year
14 LG 315s @ 213 azimuth 15 deg tilt
42 LG 315s @ 168 azimuth 15 deg tilt

SAM was necessary because PVWatts can't model a system with existing solar. With SAM, I was able to input my actual hourly production/consumption from APS (local POCO).
Now that I'm producing all of expected usage, I have switched from TOU to standard rate. Estimated payback is 8.8 years. LCOE (real) 1.87 cents/kWh with 25 year mortgage @ 4%
Install was $43,700 less $1,800 roof coating = $41,900 / 17.36 kW DC = $2.41/kWh in Phoenix area before incentives.

Understood. The LOCE tends to get quite low with long time frames such as 25 years and a relatively low install price. Self install ?

[38kW]

Enphase Enlighten view

[38kW]

Understood. The LOCE tends to get quite low with long time frames such as 25 years and a relatively low install price. Self install ?

No, custom install by top rated company on SolarReviews both by number of reviews and 5 stars. No exposed conduit, extremely neat and quick design, permitting, install and permission to operate.

[J.P.M.]

No, custom install by top rated company on SolarReviews both by number of reviews and 5 stars. No exposed conduit, extremely neat and quick design, permitting, install and permission to operate.

Understood. Thank you. Any surprises, good or not so good ? Zip code ?

[38kW]

Understood. Thank you. Any surprises, good or not so good ? Zip code ?

One surprise is how good the LG315 to Enphase S280 combo performs at less than perfect conditions. I need more experience with the system before I can make any claims. The only issue we have had is getting the Envoy to communicate with all the inverters on both systems. They are physically separated by two hundred feet.

[Engineer]

Early for me too but I noticed something similar. We've had a couple of bad days and it seemed like the LG315/S280 is performing really well. Anecdotal, but the Neon2 is supposed to have technology for working better in poor conditions

http://www.lg.com/us/commercial/NeON2/images/neon2-high-performance-weak-sunlight.jpg

http://www.lg.com/us/commercial/NeON2/neon2-performance.jsp

[J.P.M.]

One surprise is how good the LG315 to Enphase S280 combo performs at less than perfect conditions. I need more experience with the system before I can make any claims. The only issue we have had is getting the Envoy to communicate with all the inverters on both systems. They are physically separated by two hundred feet.

FWIW, in my experience, many folks who are new to solar look at such things and tend to a bit surprised at system output when it's sort of not real sunny. It's complicated but there' a lot of energy to be harvested under partly sunny skies.

If you go to PVOutput.org for your area, you'll be able to get a dart throw on system performance. Look for systems with similar orientation to yours. You'll probably find similar output per installed kW that's mostly independent of panel mfg. Example: Sensij and I have somewhat similar array orientations. Tilts are essentially identical. He's about dead south. I'm 195.75 az. He's got Canadian Solar. I've got Sunpower. We're about 25 or so miles apart. I'm a bit farther inland and higher elevation. Our daily output per installed kW is very similar for most clear days, like within 1-2 % or so, and usually still close for most of the rest of the days.

Edit: But a bit off topic, I'd add that the similarities in output per kW in the two mentioned systems are more anecdotal but documentable data that reinforces the opinion that Sunpower stuff, while good, doesn't produce any more power per installed kW than other equally good equipment - it just costs more - and probably much more than any possible, but at this time still unproven, notions that annual performance rolloff or alleged superior warranty can justify the often 20-30 % up front S.P. premium. BTW, and at the risk of a rhetorical question: If the stuff is so good, why is such a (claimed) superior warranty needed in the first place ? Even if warranty could be used as an excuse for overpricing, isn't that something like being insurance poor ?

[Engineer]

True, I've had solar water before and at first was surprised to hear it kicking on when it was apparently a bad day or time. Still I like this panel and inverter

[J.P.M.]

True, I've had solar water before and at first was surprised to hear it kicking on when it was apparently a bad day or time. Still I like this panel and inverter

I've got both. The solar H2O heater is about 30 + % net efficient on an annual basis (annual P.O.A. irradiance/annual net to storage, with all the solar H2O system piping losses included, but no tank losses, about 8 yrs. old, and running trouble free. The PV system is about 16+% or so efficient (annual P.O.A irradiance/annual system output) on an annual basis after 31 months operation. But, if I were doing it now, and in spite of being a big fan of solar thermal, in my location and situation, I'd probably opt for a heat pump water heater and supply the power to it with PV as the most cost effective and lower maint. method of DHW supply, again, for my situation only (no CH4 availability and a mild climate).

[Engineer]

Thanks, interesting info. Heat pumps aren't done around here for some reason, but solar water is popular (lots of sun).

[rsilvers]

I saw data on clipping with M215 and 250W panels and it was about 0.7% power loss over a year. It may be the same with S280 and LG315 as that is about the same over-rating.

SolarEdge is not caught up to EnPhase on total output yield due to efficiency differences and is about 0.7% worse.

http://www.affordable-solar.com/solaredge-vs-enphase/

So I would be happy with S280 and LG315.

[sensij]

I saw data on clipping with M215 and 250W panels and it was about 0.7% power loss over a year. It may be the same with S280 and LG315 as that is about the same over-rating.

SolarEdge is not caught up to EnPhase on total output yield due to efficiency differences and is about 0.7% worse.

http://www.affordable-solar.com/solaredge-vs-enphase/

So I would be happy with S280 and LG315.

That PVSyst study is kind of BS. Declaring a 0.7% difference to be statistically significant in a model with substantially more error than that strikes me as disingenuous, at best.

[J.P.M.]

that pvsyst study is kind of bs. Declaring a 0.7% difference to be statistically significant in a model with substantially more error than that strikes me as disingenuous, at best.

fwiw, +1.

[ButchDeal]

SolarEdge is not caught up to EnPhase on total output yield due to efficiency differences and is about 0.7% worse.

I think you are backwards on your solarEdge statement as well. SolarEdge has much better efficiency.
the blog claims results using a similar ion on pvsyst but no statement of simulation configuration.