2KW system project near DC

[SolarSquirrel]

hello,
I'm considering a 2kw DIY grid-tied / net-metering system in northern VA near DC. My plan is to buy all the supplies myself (panels, mounts, inverter), assemble them, and then have a professional electrician install it. My electrical skills are OK for making panels, but I don't want to make a mistake connecting the system to the grid. The local utility also requires professional install before connecting a net meter.

http://www.solarpaneltalk.com/showthread.php?t=1906&highlight=electrician+install*&page=3

my 3 questions:
1. can electricians install and certify DIY panel installs?
2. what is the typical cost for a pro-install?
3. how much do the other parts cost for a 2kw system (inverter, mounts and wiring)?

Many thanks,

SolarSquirrel

[russ]

Welcome to Solar Panel Talk SolarSquirrel!

Lets see what some of the guys have to say about this.

My understanding is that there is no way to use DIY panels for a grid connected system - it will not be acceptable.

Electricians can not certify a panel or other equipment.

There are potential problems with insurance if non UL approved equipment is connected to the house or installed on the house. For a separate ground mount this would not apply.

From the prices that I have seen it will be about as cheap to buy factory made panels plus they will be guaranteed for 20-25 years and UL approved so no problem with the grid connect.

[Sunking]

You cannot make the panels, they will have to be UL or other approval agency recognized by you local authority having jurisdiction.

[Mike90250]

1. can electricians install and certify DIY panel installs?

No. any electrical gadgets installed in/on a insured dwelling unit, must be of an approved construction. Sorry. Besides, DIY panels only last a couple of years, moisture gets in, and then they are dead.

[SolarSquirrel]

No. any electrical gadgets installed in/on a insured dwelling unit, must be of an approved construction. Sorry. Besides, DIY panels only last a couple of years, moisture gets in, and then they are dead.

hehehe, I understand the restriction against certifying gadgets, gizmos and whirligigs. this is disappointing but reasonable. a professional wouldn't want to put their license at risk over a DIY-er's mistakes.

more disappointing are the prices for approved kits -
$8.4k for 2.07KW

http://cgi.ebay.com/2-07-kW-Grid-Tied-PV-Solar-Kit-panel-inverter-etc-/200459786941?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2eac559abd

$11k for 2.76KW

http://cgi.ebay.com/2-76-kW-Grid-Tied-PV-Solar-Kit-panels-inverters-etc-/200459787658?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2eac559d8a

estimate of $5/watt installed

http://www.solarpaneltalk.com/showthread.php?t=571&highlight=price

$5 / w * (1000w / 1KW) * 2KW = $10k = FUHGEDDABOUTIT!

these are outside my price range. are there ways to get a ~2KW system done for ~$3k? otherwise, the payback period seems excessive.

[batdog04]

I also plan to put 2KW worth of DIY solar panels on my roof. Email your Electric company with your questions. All my electric company is concerned with is the Inverter itself. Since the inverter is what connects to the grid they don't care about what is before it. Your utility company may be different. Contact them & they will let you know what they want & what their concerns are. My problem is that I'm not sure what type/brand of Grid-Tie inverter to go with.

The only things I plan to buy, for my system, are the inverter, wiring, & individual cells. I have all the other material to construct the panels. Will save better than half the cost of PRO made panels. I do realize the life of the panels with be half that of PRO made though.
Kevin

[russ]

Check with your insurance company as well - they may have something to say about non UL certified panels/equipment.

The insurance company has no reason to accept liability with non certified equipment and every reason not to.

[Sunking]

Email your Electric company with your questions. All my electric company is concerned with is the Inverter itself.

It is not the electric company to be concerned with. All they will look for is the Local Inspectors stamp that the system passed inspection. It is the Local Electrical Code inspectors that will red flag the DIY panels, not the electric company.

[batdog04]

Russ brings up a good point. I haven't checked with my insurance company either. It's something that needs to be done.

Sunking also has a valid point. I'm lucky enough that the county I live in has no specific electrical requirements for a home owner. What I'm says is that I can do just about anything I want to my own house. If I hire someone though, they have to be lisenced & their work inspected. Don't get me wrong. I'm not going to do anything that could be dangerous or could cause structural or electricl problems by doing mine DIY. When doing DIY much thought & planning needs to be in place before work begins.

Homework list:
check with utility company
check with insurance company
check with County departments

[Sunking]

Batdog I do not know which country you are in, does not make a whole lot of difference. Here in the USA each State and City have different requirements. At a minimum local jurisdictions will require a particular year of NEC code cycle to be meet. There are still some places that are operating on 1999 code cycles. Some jurisdictions even add amendments on top of the NEC to prevent homeowners from doing their own work like Chicago as they require even residential to use EMT conduit for any wiring of any kind.

But here is the trick, most jurisdictions will allow the homeowner to pull their own permits and do the work themselves. There are two big catches to this. One is actually knowing how and what needs to be done to pull the permit, and the other biggie is actually passing the inspection. I have seen many folks on here that never get past the permit stage because they do not have specifications, drawings, and Professional Engineers sign-off on the structure. The permit is the easy part, the inspection is even more difficult. I know of electricians that have done it for 20 years and not pass the first time. Their advantage is when they get red flagged and wrote up, the inspectors will only cite the code violations. It is up to you to figure out what it means as the inspectors are not going to walk you through it. What I am getting at here is a homeowner has very little chance of DIY the system.

As for insurance. Many carriers will not insure a solar PV system, it is just too foreign to them and they do not have a history to determine risk.

[batdog04]

I live in Adams County, IL. As far as I know, out in the county I don't need a permit to do my own work, either that or they are very lenient around here. Built my own house myself & didn

[Sunking]

[QUOTE=batdog04;13369] I live in Adams County, IL. I don

[batdog04]

Step 1. Contact Utility company - get requirements for DIY solar grid connect. DONE

Step 2. Contact county administrator - find out about permits, licenses, & inspection for DIY solar. NONE REQUIRED for my area. Done

Step 3. Contact insurance company - explain that a DIY solar powered system will be installed on house. Ask if OK, any restrictions, or not covered. Waiting on reply.

I guess yes. I will fly but I might not die. The Wright brothers didn't die. Where would we be without them? I'm quite suprised, you where very helpful on a different topic. Here though you seem pessimistic about the idea of DIY. It causes one to wonder if you work in the professional end of this business.
My back ground: Profession - High Power Electronics & part time general contractor.
Built several houses, wiring was part of it. None of them have burned down.
I

[Mike90250]

You won't believe how many posts we get from someone who can hardly find the right end of the hammer to hold, and they are learning how to solder 300 cells for a giant panel, that they got instructions for off ebay.

What Sunking is wanting to say ( I think) is many people who are not capable of completing a job, invest 20K in panels and racks, and then find out they will never pass inspection. So if the inspector says you used THNN insulated wire and it won't pass, do you know to get TDHN wire and replace all the wrong stuff ? Often , inspectors want to see an unbroken, unspliced ground wire from panel #1 to #26, to the ground rod. Others want the wire in a armor sheath (BX). Some want new ground rod, some want you to use existing . When the inspector finds a error, you have to find out whats wrong and fix it.


[QUOTE=batdog04;13383]Step 1. Contact Utility company - get requirements for DIY solar grid connect. DONE

Step 2. Contact county administrator - find out about permits, licenses, & inspection for DIY solar. NONE REQUIRED for my area. Done

Step 3. Contact insurance company - explain that a DIY solar powered system will be installed on house. Ask if OK, any restrictions, or not covered. Waiting on reply.

I guess yes. I will fly but I might not die. The Wright brothers didn't die. Where would we be without them? I'm quite suprised, you where very helpful on a different topic. Here though you seem pessimistic about the idea of DIY. It causes one to wonder if you work in the professional end of this business.
My back ground: Profession - High Power Electronics & part time general contractor.
Built several houses, wiring was part of it. None of them have burned down.
I

[Sunking]

What Sunking is wanting to say ( I think) is many people who are not capable of completing a job, invest 20K in panels and racks, and then find out they will never pass inspection. So if the inspector says you used THNN insulated wire and it won't pass, do you know to get TDHN wire and replace all the wrong stuff ?

Pretty much Mike. DIY for the most part do not even know enough to know what questions to ask or where to find the answers. As you know if you fail an inspection, you will have to pay another inspection fee which can vary for $100 up to a few thousand depending on the area and scale of the project. I know quite a few that went through several inspections before passing or deciding to hire a pro to come fix. What most find out when they hire the pro it cost them more to fix it, than it would have to hired in in the first place because they end up ripping everything out and starting over. That is not fun, but as they say a good education is expensive.