Has anyone bought any of the solar stuff on Northern Tool

[Mouli SolarPod]

Sounds like a lot of Hokum - sales pitch. Last I remember about Northern Tool is that they specialize in cheap stuff.

Like Inetdog pointed out - you seem to have no idea about how to set up a system in a legal and safe manner.

I removed your email BTW

Am not going to make a fuss about opinions with anyone.

Facts will speak for itself. We have installations in Sunnyvale, Palo Alto through Leyden, MA. We have an installation in PA that even after hurricane Sandy uprooted trees, the system came back to power when grid was restored. But as a consumer you have a lot of power and do have an opinion on the perception. We will try to change it with time, effort, patience, dedication and hard work. I truly appreciate your comments.

Mouli

[SunEagle]

All our components are UL listed. Also, the electrical output is 240VAC and not 120VAC. Electricians are trained to place 240VAC into dedicated circuits without any branches. The designed system when installed will be no different than legacy systems as far as installation is concerned.

Thanks.
Mouli

Your system will still require both the Utility sign-off and local code inspectors to allow a grid tie system in most states.

[Mouli SolarPod]

Your system will still require both the Utility sign-off and local code inspectors to allow a grid tie system in most states.

Yes. We will help the customer with permit process (building and electrical permit submissions including design documentation approvals). However, the customer will need to get a local electrician. Any local electrician with no solar experience can hookup (solar experience will be a plus). But will need to follow code for wiring. it will be almost similar to a hot water heater or a furnace installation except the SolarPodTM will require building permits and we will fill out the permit documents. we will not cover permit fees.

Thanks for clarifying.

Mouli

[inetdog]

Yes. We will help the customer with permit process (building and electrical permit submissions including design documentation approvals). However, the customer will need to get a local electrician. Any local electrician with no solar experience can hookup (solar experience will be a plus). But will need to follow code for wiring. it will be almost similar to a hot water heater or a furnace installation except the SolarPodTM will require building permits and we will fill out the permit documents. we will not cover permit fees.

Thanks for clarifying.

Mouli

Just one question:
Have any of the approved installations been plug and cord connected or have the local electricians had to hard wire them?

[Mouli SolarPod]

Just one question:
Have any of the approved installations been plug and cord connected or have the local electricians had to hard wire them?

All of our installations use the plugs. The plugs we use are special twist lock plug connectors that have weather proofing. Although the plugs (male and female are provided) are given, the wiring is normally done by an electrician because the wires have to be per code (buried or inaccessible and protected). Any electrician can do the wiring easily. Wiring costs are about $5 to $10 per foot. So if you want to go 30 feet it may cost you about $300/- typically. This is a one time charge while you can daisy chain up to four SolarPodTM Grid Tied to the same 20A dedicated circuit breaker.

The plugs are UL listed.

Thanks for the question.

Mouli

[russ]

For one of our electrical types - will this meet code?

[sdold]

Are there parts lists on your site? I cannot find anything that lists what you get for the money.

[inetdog]

For one of our electrical types - will this meet code?

A very good question. The specialized plug and receptacle may be the critical difference between this and other plug and pray products.
Although the code does not allow flexible cord to be used "as a substitute for fixed building wiring", the question becomes where the actual interface between the inverter(s) and the house wiring is located.
For example, in the case of traditional microinverters there is an AC trunk cable which each inverter plugs into. The far end of that cable is connected (hard wired) to a junction box that connects it to fixed wiring using suitable cable or individual wires in conduit.

In this case, since the female receptacle is provided by the system manufacturer, you could consider the installation of that specialized receptacle to be the actual interconnection to the building wiring and the plug, receptacle and cord are all part of the solar PV system itself. As long as listed parts or recognized components are used for that plug and receptacle, I can see this as being allowed by the NEC, although some inspectors may require some education and persuasion.

But I do have a problem with the advertising of the system as a plug-in system. It is not, at least not in the same sense that the cheap and illegal asian GTIs are plug-in.
By emphasizing that aspect in their ads, I am afraid that Mouli is doing more harm than good to the reputation and acceptance of their product.
Using their definition, you could just as easily call an Enphase system a plug-in solution.
The thing that makes them potentially code compliant is not that they use require a dedicated circuit, or even that they use a specialized plug format. It is that the receptacle is furnished with and as a part of the system and must be installed by an electrician.
Also, FWIW, the notion of "a plug-in solution" will immediately lead most people that first see the description to assume that no electrician is needed.
Also FWIW, the installation of that dedicated circuit is still subject to the PV 120% rule at the panel where it is installed and at any upstream panels.
And for areas under the 2104 NEC, they would have to include ground fault and arc fault protection and rapid disconnect. I do not know if their inverter meets all of these requirements. Would you please address that too Mouli SolarPod?
And finally, the use of UL listed components is not enough to make the inverter itself and its associated wiring automatically UL listed as a GTI. Presumably that has been arranged also, either through UL or some other NRTL.

[Mouli SolarPod]

A very good question. The specialized plug and receptacle may be the critical difference between this and other plug and pray products.
Although the code does not allow flexible cord to be used "as a substitute for fixed building wiring", the question becomes where the actual interface between the inverter(s) and the house wiring is located.
For example, in the case of traditional microinverters there is an AC trunk cable which each inverter plugs into. The far end of that cable is connected (hard wired) to a junction box that connects it to fixed wiring using suitable cable or individual wires in conduit.

In this case, since the female receptacle is provided by the system manufacturer, you could consider the installation of that specialized receptacle to be the actual interconnection to the building wiring and the plug, receptacle and cord are all part of the solar PV system itself. As long as listed parts or recognized components are used for that plug and receptacle, I can see this as being allowed by the NEC, although some inspectors may require some education and persuasion.

But I do have a problem with the advertising of the system as a plug-in system. It is not, at least not in the same sense that the cheap and illegal asian GTIs are plug-in.
By emphasizing that aspect in their ads, I am afraid that Mouli is doing more harm than good to the reputation and acceptance of their product.
Using their definition, you could just as easily call an Enphase system a plug-in solution.
The thing that makes them potentially code compliant is not that they use require a dedicated circuit, or even that they use a specialized plug format. It is that the receptacle is furnished with and as a part of the system and must be installed by an electrician.
Also, FWIW, the notion of "a plug-in solution" will immediately lead most people that first see the description to assume that no electrician is needed.
Also FWIW, the installation of that dedicated circuit is still subject to the PV 120% rule at the panel where it is installed and at any upstream panels.
And for areas under the 2104 NEC, they would have to include ground fault and arc fault protection and rapid disconnect. I do not know if their inverter meets all of these requirements. Would you please address that too Mouli SolarPod?
And finally, the use of UL listed components is not enough to make the inverter itself and its associated wiring automatically UL listed as a GTI. Presumably that has been arranged also, either through UL or some other NRTL.

You have covered all the aspects well. Yes, the cheap (and illegal) asian GTIs have given a bad name to Plug & Play. We are plug & play because all components fabricated with MINIMAL ON-SITE INSTALLATION.

We provide integrated ground inverters which have GFI built in.

We also provide ground lugs on the frame for on-site grounding of the frame direct to a ground rod. A ground rod (~$8/rod for an 8') for one installation and then bonding the rest of the daisy chain SolarPods is sufficient.

Another very important feature intrinsically available in the SolarPod is the disconnect right next to the solar array. Where the inverter cable terminates and we provide male and female this becomes a disconnect as well. For each SolarPodTM there is an intrinsic disconnect.

Another feature is the energy production. Since the SolarPodTM can be manually tilt adjusted from 5 degrees angle to horizontal to 50 degrees, you can tilt adjust for winter to shed snow (steep angle also helps with higher Solar incidence) and tilt adjust for summer. This two times a year adjustment provides nearly 10 to 20% more energy than fixed angle systems.

We have proven our systems can be permitted and approved in Sunnyvale, Palo Alto, Tehama County California and Leyden Massachusetts and many more places.

Thanks to all for the questions. We become better ONLY when questions are asked - I truly believe it.

Mouli

[Mouli SolarPod]

Are there parts lists on your site? I cannot find anything that lists what you get for the money.

What's included:
1. Solar panels (960 W minimum, actually many times you get more).
2. Inverters corresponding to the solar panels.
3. Complete racking.
4. Cables cords with male to connect to the inverters and female for on-site wiring.
5. Support for permit documents (Line diagram, site plan, Wind load calculation, and permit documentation). Actual cost for the permit is not included.
All of the above pre-fabricated for our system. Kindly watch the installation video on our website that shows step by step the installation.

Best of all You can’t buy Happiness, But you can buy SolarPodTM. And that is close enough.....

Enjoy. Looking forward to many friendships, learnings and fun. Thanks.

Mouli

[SunEagle]

A very good question. The specialized plug and receptacle may be the critical difference between this and other plug and pray products.
Although the code does not allow flexible cord to be used "as a substitute for fixed building wiring", the question becomes where the actual interface between the inverter(s) and the house wiring is located.
For example, in the case of traditional microinverters there is an AC trunk cable which each inverter plugs into. The far end of that cable is connected (hard wired) to a junction box that connects it to fixed wiring using suitable cable or individual wires in conduit.

In this case, since the female receptacle is provided by the system manufacturer, you could consider the installation of that specialized receptacle to be the actual interconnection to the building wiring and the plug, receptacle and cord are all part of the solar PV system itself. As long as listed parts or recognized components are used for that plug and receptacle, I can see this as being allowed by the NEC, although some inspectors may require some education and persuasion.

But I do have a problem with the advertising of the system as a plug-in system. It is not, at least not in the same sense that the cheap and illegal asian GTIs are plug-in.
By emphasizing that aspect in their ads, I am afraid that Mouli is doing more harm than good to the reputation and acceptance of their product.
Using their definition, you could just as easily call an Enphase system a plug-in solution.
The thing that makes them potentially code compliant is not that they use require a dedicated circuit, or even that they use a specialized plug format. It is that the receptacle is furnished with and as a part of the system and must be installed by an electrician.
Also, FWIW, the notion of "a plug-in solution" will immediately lead most people that first see the description to assume that no electrician is needed.
Also FWIW, the installation of that dedicated circuit is still subject to the PV 120% rule at the panel where it is installed and at any upstream panels.
And for areas under the 2104 NEC, they would have to include ground fault and arc fault protection and rapid disconnect. I do not know if their inverter meets all of these requirements. Would you please address that too Mouli SolarPod?
And finally, the use of UL listed components is not enough to make the inverter itself and its associated wiring automatically UL listed as a GTI. Presumably that has been arranged also, either through UL or some other NRTL.

I believe you covered all of the questions very nicely and raised a valid concern about the advertisement of "plug and play". This could turn some some people away thinking it is a cheap and illegal solution or worse let people believe they can do all of the wiring themselves without using a licensed electrician. The SolarPod people need to add some clarification in the wording so people understand what they can and cannot do.

The biggest stumbling block I see is to know if the local inspectors will allow the cord connection between the Pod output and the hardwired connection at the panel. As you stated the code does not allow a flexible cord for a permanent wiring practice. Cords are usually used for temporary power only and even then have a length limitation of 6 feet for a "fixed" load like a lighting fixture. It is possible that if the plug connection is secured in a UL listed box to keep unauthorized people from touching it and getting shocked (similar to a terminal or junction box) it would be allowed.

The whole idea of the Pod system has merits but also some questions concerning the approval process from the POCO and local code inspectors with respect to where you reside.

[Mouli SolarPod]

I believe you covered all of the questions very nicely and raised a valid concern about the advertisement of "plug and play". This could turn some some people away thinking it is a cheap and illegal solution or worse let people believe they can do all of the wiring themselves without using a licensed electrician. The SolarPod people need to add some clarification in the wording so people understand what they can and cannot do.

The biggest stumbling block I see is to know if the local inspectors will allow the cord connection between the Pod output and the hardwired connection at the panel. As you stated the code does not allow a flexible cord for a permanent wiring practice. Cords are usually used for temporary power only and even then have a length limitation of 6 feet for a "fixed" load like a lighting fixture. It is possible that if the plug connection is secured in a UL listed box to keep unauthorized people from touching it and getting shocked (similar to a terminal or junction box) it would be allowed.

The whole idea of the Pod system has merits but also some questions concerning the approval process from the POCO and local code inspectors with respect to where you reside.

The plugs are rated to IP66. What is IP66? IP stands for Ingress Protection Marking, classifies and rates the degree of protection provided against the intrusion (including body parts such as hands and fingers), dust, accidental contact, and water by mechanical casings and electrical enclosures.

The first 6 stands for No ingress of dust; complete protection against contact (dust tight).

The second 6 stands for Powerful water jets Water projected in powerful jets (12.5 mm nozzle) against the enclosure from any direction shall have no harmful effects.

The issue is regulation is behind technology. Technology comes much before regulation. We are diligently working to push our technology.

We also understand perception is more than reality. The perception that "plug & play" could possibly mean cheap Asian counterfeits. However, when we are trail blazing an industry and moving it forward. Detractors cannot be the mean but the outliers. Technically, we can stand up to the best. We have issued patents, third party testing, UL listing, and appropriate ratings on this. I have a PhD, PE, NABCEP PV installer certification and CEM. I like to learn and make exceedingly simple, affordable and modular products that provides value.

Again, most of the issues and concerns are about the inspector accepting the ratings. When we provide technical merits, all of them have accepted it. The ones that do not today, will change their opinions in time much like many instances in our history.

Mouli

[Mouli SolarPod]

The SolarPod people need to add some clarification in the wording so people understand what they can and cannot do.

A solar PV system installation requires the mechanical portion AND the electrical portion. The customer can decide which of these portions to hire experts and which are mostly labor intensive to save on costs. We help the customer in providing the installation steps and the customer can decide which of these they can hire experts. For example most customers will require placing the 20A two pole backfed breaker as a specialized electrician task. However, I do have a customer who is an electrical engineer and was very comfortable doing that also. By fragmenting the tasks, the customer pays for only the task that he/she thinks they want to pay for. At $3.5/W for a 1kW system and all of the warranty that are provided, we hope we are providing value. All of this before any of the tax breaks and for a system that inherently can provide more energy than legacy systems by at least 10% more energy.

That is our mission - SIMPLE, AFFORDABLE and MODULAR.

Thanks and your questions only mean you care and I truly appreciate it.

Mouli

[SunEagle]

The plugs are rated to IP66. What is IP66? IP stands for Ingress Protection Marking, classifies and rates the degree of protection provided against the intrusion (including body parts such as hands and fingers), dust, accidental contact, and water by mechanical casings and electrical enclosures.

The first 6 stands for No ingress of dust; complete protection against contact (dust tight).

The second 6 stands for Powerful water jets Water projected in powerful jets (12.5 mm nozzle) against the enclosure from any direction shall have no harmful effects.

The issue is regulation is behind technology. Technology comes much before regulation. We are diligently working to push our technology.

We also understand perception is more than reality. The perception that "plug & play" could possibly mean cheap Asian counterfeits. However, when we are trail blazing an industry and moving it forward. Detractors cannot be the mean but the outliers. Technically, we can stand up to the best. We have issued patents, third party testing, UL listing, and appropriate ratings on this. I have a PhD, PE, NABCEP PV installer certification and CEM. I like to learn and make exceedingly simple, affordable and modular products that provides value.

Again, most of the issues and concerns are about the inspector accepting the ratings. When we provide technical merits, all of them have accepted it. The ones that do not today, will change their opinions in time much like many instances in our history.

Mouli

I agree your company has done a lot of good engineering to make sure all of the components meet the electric code including the plug rating for wet environments. And I applaud that hard work.

While the plug will keep people from getting shocked just by touching it, there needs to be some type of "guard" to keep people from unplugging it when energized. That requires some type of lock or putting the plug connection inside a box which is locked. Again this may be a small point but it will be something an inspector will usually look at along with is there any way for a child to get hurt pulling on any of the wires in and around the pod. A ground mount system requires a little more in the way of keeping people safe than a roof top installation since that is out of reach for most people.

I just tried to point out a possible misconception that a buyer could make concerning the "plug & play" and then be surprised with the legality of needing a licensed electrician. Nothing wrong with a system that is easy to build and install as long as the buyer knows what other requirements are needed for the final electrical connection.

As for the local inspector approving the installation, I would say that if they feel the work was done per the local code and by a licensed electrician there would be no issues. Although I have a number of years experience with local inspectors and while the usually understand and follow the code they have the final say if it is approved or not. If they chose not to approve the installation additional work will be required to make them happy. Not what I like but it is a way of life because the "Inspector is always right" even if they are wrong.

Again, I like your SolarPod system and hopefully all of the questions concerning what we have discussed will be resolved and your company will grow.

[Mouli SolarPod]

While the plug will keep people from getting shocked just by touching it, there needs to be some type of "guard" to keep people from unplugging it when energized. That requires some type of lock or putting the plug connection inside a box which is locked. Again this may be a small point but it will be something an inspector will usually look at along with is there any way for a child to get hurt pulling on any of the wires in and around the pod. A ground mount system requires a little more in the way of keeping people safe than a roof top installation since that is out of reach for most people.

The SolarPodTM comes with UL 1741 Grid Tied inverter certification. What does this mean? This means that solar power is present ONLY when the inverter senses grid voltages. The solar inverter is OFF when there is no grid voltage. The power from the solar inverter disconnects in 2 to 4 cycles when the grid goes down. This is about 1/15 of one second at 60 cycles. The TWIST operation ensures the time of at least 1/15 cycles is present to shut power from the inverter. The reason for the grid tied inverter is to ensure the solar system does not send power to the grid and fry grid workers when the grid is down. We take advantage of this with our cabling system as well.

We place the male plugs on the solar inverter side which ensures power is not possible on the male leads. The home run side has the female. Please see our video.

There is no way for electrical shock from our system, unless one intentionally wants to do so. The DC voltage maximum in our system is about 48V which terminates at the inverter. This is low DC enough that it will not give a life threatening shock to most people (children and sensitive people not included). This low DC voltage is great engineering protection as well compared to string and central inverters that have very high DC voltages and have to be metal (EMT) enclosed for wiring. 95% of our wiring is AC and has GFI.

Thanks SunEagle for your kind words. I do agree communication is one of our biggest weakness. I am an engineer in training, blood and philosophy and am trying hard at communication. It is much easy when there is a lot of capital. But we are better armed with passion, integrity and hard work.

Thanks.

Mouli