Has anyone bought any of the solar stuff on Northern Tool

[Texican]

NorthernTool.jpg

[sdold]

It seems like a lot of money for what you get, the 960 watt grid tied system comes out to about $3.75/watt NOT installed. The manual seems to say it comes with the Enphase D380 "Twin Pack" inverters which I think peak out at about 760 watts, but the installation videos on the SolarPod web site seem to show M215 inverters (which I use, and like) which would put out around 860 watts on a good day. But in both cases it looks like you don't get an envoy monitoring device, which isn't necessary, but it's nice to have. The racking looks like Unistrut.

For the money you spend on a Solarpod, I bet you could get a professional installation, on the roof, without a cord running across the yard.

I'd wonder too if an installation like this qualifies for the Federal Tax Credit, since it seems like a temporary installation (much like an above-ground pool).

[Texican]

Northern Tool Backup Power System 6000W

I already have an 8.8 kW grid tie system but I am looking for a smaller backup system for a critical panel. The one pictured in my post is a BPS Backup Solar Power Source — 6,000 Watt System, 120 Volt, 8 Batteries, 6 Solar Panels, Model# 6SXW6000 8AGM for $15,000.00 and it looks to be incentive eligible. It looks like it has a Xantrex XW inverter which could also take a generator.

[sdold]

The one pictured in the ad I posted is a BPS Backup Solar Power Source — 6,000 Watt System, 120 Volt, 8 Batteries, 6 Solar Panels, Model# 6SXW6000 8AGM for $15,000.00 and it looks to be incentive eligible. It looks like it has a Xantrex XW inverter which could also take a generator.

I apologize, for some reason I looked at your picture and when I went to their site I ended up looking at one of the grid-tie systems.

[Texican]

I saw their grid tie systems too. This backup system looks very complete for the price just not sure of the quality.

[SunEagle]

I already have an 8.8 kW grid tie system but I am looking for a smaller backup system for a critical panel. The one pictured in my post is a BPS Backup Solar Power Source — 6,000 Watt System, 120 Volt, 8 Batteries, 6 Solar Panels, Model# 6SXW6000 8AGM for $15,000.00 and it looks to be incentive eligible. It looks like it has a Xantrex XW inverter which could also take a generator.

That system only has 1200 watts of panels (6 x 200watt) and those 8 batteries are only 105Ah/ea. Not sure how they can calculate it is a 6000 watt system.

Your grid tie system is probably a good investment. If you are looking for an emergency backup system then go with a propane or natural gas generator which will be less expensive than that NT system and have a higher power output than 6000 watts. Besides with any battery system you have to purchase a generator anyway to help maintain it.

[inetdog]

That system only has 1200 watts of panels (6 x 200watt) and those 8 batteries are only 105Ah/ea. Not sure how they can calculate it is a 6000 watt system.

Your grid tie system is probably a good investment. If you are looking for an emergency backup system then go with a propane or natural gas generator which will be less expensive than that NT system and have a higher power output than 6000 watts. Besides with any battery system you have to purchase a generator anyway to help maintain it.

Although they do not give any specifications (boo, hiss!) for voltage, it appears from the picture that the batteries are 12V and are configured as two four-battery series strings (48V) in parallel. That is not an ideal configuration, compared to using eight 6V batteries in straight series, but it should be workable.
The battery paralleling scheme does not, at first glance, to be diagonally connected though (bad for string to string balance, especially with AGMs, since the batteries' own internal resistance is so low, making wire resistance more important.)

But a 48V 6000W inverter, even with only 210AH of capacity in the battery bank, is not unreasonable when using AGMs. Just do not expect to be able to use the full 6kW more than half an hour per day.

[Texican]

To get the 6000 watt figure they probably configure the battery bank to put out 48 volts. Its looks like a hybrid xantrex 6048 inverter which would be able to augment my 8.8 grid tie system with this 1.2 for a total of 10kW. If it is a hybrid xantrex it can also integrate a smaller generator than if backup was generator only.

[SunEagle]

Although they do not give any specifications (boo, hiss!) for voltage, it appears from the picture that the batteries are 12V and are configured as two four-battery series strings (48V) in parallel. That is not an ideal configuration, compared to using eight 6V batteries in straight series, but it should be workable.
The battery paralleling scheme does not, at first glance, to be diagonally connected though (bad for string to string balance, especially with AGMs, since the batteries' own internal resistance is so low, making wire resistance more important.)

But a 48V 6000W inverter, even with only 210AH of capacity in the battery bank, is not unreasonable when using AGMs. Just do not expect to be able to use the full 6kW more than half an hour per day.

I figured that 6000 watt claim was a short duration usage but to advertise it that way is just wrong.

I have seen a lot of small portable solar battery "package" deals that claim a high wattage output (based on inverter size) and yet have so little panel wattage it would take days to recharge the battery after one use.

Seems like false advertisement to me.

If I really needed backup power I would still invest in a good generator then deal with battery systems like that. $15k is just way to much for what that system can really deliver.

[Texican]

Does the whole $15K qualify for utility rebates and federal incentives on a system like this or just the panels and inverter?

[inetdog]

Does the whole $15K qualify for utility rebates and federal incentives on a system like this or just the panels and inverter?

IANATA.
But IMHO the whole system qualifies, since the batteries and CC are a necessary and integral part of the system as designed.
This probably does not come up very often since most on-grid systems being built are pure GTI.

[SunEagle]

Does the whole $15K qualify for utility rebates and federal incentives on a system like this or just the panels and inverter?

I would get with your tax consultant to find out. Getting an answer from one of us armchair CPA's could lead you in the wrong direction.

[Mouli SolarPod]

Price, modularity and simplicity

It seems like a lot of money for what you get, the 960 watt grid tied system comes out to about $3.75/watt NOT installed. The manual seems to say it comes with the Enphase D380 "Twin Pack" inverters which I think peak out at about 760 watts, but the installation videos on the SolarPod web site seem to show M215 inverters (which I use, and like) which would put out around 860 watts on a good day. But in both cases it looks like you don't get an envoy monitoring device, which isn't necessary, but it's nice to have. The racking looks like Unistrut.

For the money you spend on a Solarpod, I bet you could get a professional installation, on the roof, without a cord running across the yard.

I'd wonder too if an installation like this qualifies for the Federal Tax Credit, since it seems like a temporary installation (much like an above-ground pool).

One of the issues with solar is volume to price correlation. We all are aware that placing a 5kW solar system is significantly lower amortized $/W cost than a 1 kW solar. While a 5kW installation may require $20,000 or more many who wish to place solar may not be in a situation to give a $20,000 order all at once. Our modular design rends itself to 1 unit growth thereby reducing the large impact of one time installation.

Regarding the inverter, the inverter is a M215. We will make the request to update our manuals to reflect this. Northern Tool is a great company and they will do anything to keep high quality products and information.

An M215 can put out 225W at peak Sun. Since peak Sun happens only about ~2 % of the time the impact of the inverter output on the overall energy is very minimal.

Just FYI, we have a gable roof solar solution with no roof penetrations. This patented system design (aka SolarPod Crown) is lower cost than other legacy solar system. You can visit our website [ad link removed] for more info.

Mouli

---Mod Note:
1. To arrange advertising, please contact user Jason.
2. I have not yet seen any UL/NEC compliant "plug and play" grid interactive systems, and I see not reason to believe that yours is an exception.
There is no law against manufacturing and selling unlisted or unsafe components or systems, but anywhere that the NEC is enforced, they cannot actually be installed.

[russ]

Northern Tool is a great company and they will do anything to keep high quality products and information.

Mouli

---Mod Note:
1. To arrange advertising, please contact user Jason.
2. I have not yet seen any UL/NEC compliant "plug and play" grid interactive systems, and I see not reason to believe that yours is an exception.
There is no law against manufacturing and selling unlisted or unsafe components or systems, but anywhere that the NEC is enforced, they cannot actually be installed.

Sounds like a lot of Hokum - sales pitch. Last I remember about Northern Tool is that they specialize in cheap stuff.

Like Inetdog pointed out - you seem to have no idea about how to set up a system in a legal and safe manner.

I removed your email BTW

[Mouli SolarPod]

One of the issues with solar is volume to price correlation. We all are aware that placing a 5kW solar system is significantly lower amortized $/W cost than a 1 kW solar. While a 5kW installation may require $20,000 or more many who wish to place solar may not be in a situation to give a $20,000 order all at once. Our modular design rends itself to 1 unit growth thereby reducing the large impact of one time installation.

Regarding the inverter, the inverter is a M215. We will make the request to update our manuals to reflect this. Northern Tool is a great company and they will do anything to keep high quality products and information.

An M215 can put out 225W at peak Sun. Since peak Sun happens only about ~2 % of the time the impact of the inverter output on the overall energy is very minimal.

Just FYI, we have a gable roof solar solution with no roof penetrations. This patented system design (aka SolarPod Crown) is lower cost than other legacy solar system. You can visit our website [ad link removed] for more info.

Mouli

---Mod Note:
1. To arrange advertising, please contact user Jason.
2. I have not yet seen any UL/NEC compliant "plug and play" grid interactive systems, and I see not reason to believe that yours is an exception.
There is no law against manufacturing and selling unlisted or unsafe components or systems, but anywhere that the NEC is enforced, they cannot actually be installed.

All our components are UL listed. Also, the electrical output is 240VAC and not 120VAC. Electricians are trained to place 240VAC into dedicated circuits without any branches. The designed system when installed will be no different than legacy systems as far as installation is concerned.

Thanks.
Mouli