Replace inverter? Need advice

[egizzi]

Speedwire Installation - DIY?

SPS installed. I have the speedwire accessory and didn't have it ready for the installer when they came (I was at work and they came earlier than I thought).

Question: Is the speedwire a DIY project? I have the outdoor ethernet cable. I just need to know how difficult or dangerous it is to install the hardware into the inverter.

[egizzi]

Resolution

My installer has agreed to install the SPS at no charge. Basically, I told him that I would pay him in full regardless, but the only way I would recommend him is if he installed it for free. He will install it in the next couple of weeks.

I did email SMA today and told them that their marketing/sales/documentation of the SPS is ambiguous and they need to clean it up. We'll see.

Next I have to decide if I'm going to get the speedwire installed so I can monitor things online. Is it easy to install as a diy? I make my own ethernet cables and run them all over my house so that part is not difficult for me.

I also have to sell my Sharp inverter for parts. Off to Ebay or Craigslist!

[inetdog]

Note the "If" in section 5. Pretty ambiguous in the documentation, I'd say.

Possibly reflecting a change in progress from the models where it was standard to newer models where it is optional and the editing has not gotten consistent yet.

[sensij]

Here is the page that clearly states the 22 model has SPS as Standard.

http://www.sma-america.com/en_US/products/grid-tied-inverters/sunny-boy/sunny-boy-with-sps-3000tl-us-3800tl-us-4000tl-us-5000tl-us-6000tl-us.html

I rest my case?

Also, from the user manual:

3.5 Secure Power Supply (SPS)
The inverter is equipped with a secure power supply by means of which an external socket-outlet can be connected to the inverter. The socket-outlet provides current from the PV plant on demand in the event of a grid failure (see Section 5 "Secure Power Operation", page 22). The secure power supply also has a terminal for the fan retrofit kit, enabling an external fan to be controlled.

However, in the Section 5 that is mentioned, it says:

5 Secure Power Operation
If the inverter has a secure power supply, you can use the energy from the PV plant directly via the connected socket-outlet in the event of a grid failure.

Note the "If" in section 5. Pretty ambiguous in the documentation, I'd say.

[greensolarelectric]

sharp inverter repair

I have a lot of parts for the sharp JH-3500U, I have refurbished ones for exchange or you can send me them and I will repair it for you.

Thanks,

I have a 9 year old 3.3kw system on my roof installed by Borrego. The panels are 48 cell kyocera panels.

The inverter is a Sharp Sunvista JH-3500. It's a 3.5kw inverter.

The first inverter died right before the 5 year warranty expired. Sharp replaced it through the company Borrego had sold their residential service (I believe it was GroSolar). Now the second one has died a little over 4 years later.

The problem is that Sharp has no record of this second inverter and the solar company that replaced it can't find their paperwork either. Mea culpa that I did not get any paperwork when it was replaced.

I will call Sharp to press them directly about repairing/replacing this inverter for free. If they agree to do that, then that's the obvious choice.

If they refuse, then I have two options:

1) pay for Sharp to repair it
2) switch inverters, and go with a sunny boy inverter with a 10 year warranty

If I switch to a sunny boy inverter, I'm looking at their new ones (the 3800 and the 4000). I'm not sure why the 4000 is less expensive than the 3800. Am I correct that I simply need to get an inverter that exceeds the kw that my panels generate? I would go this route through one of the local solar shops that repair/install solar.

I am totally disappointed that my inverter has died again. When I went through the math to decide about solar, I did not calculate equipment failure. I can't change to micro-inverters because my panels are 48 cell. So I have to have a single grid-tie inverter, and I'm leaning towards the sunny boy just for peace of mind.

-Elio

[inetdog]

Here is the page that clearly states the 22 model has SPS as Standard.

http://www.sma-america.com/en_US/products/grid-tied-inverters/sunny-boy/sunny-boy-with-sps-3000tl-us-3800tl-us-4000tl-us-5000tl-us-6000tl-us.html

I rest my case?

Looks pretty conclusive to me.

One problem, I suspect, may be that that the original 4000W model was just called the SMA 4000TL-US, with one MPPT input, and was shipped with standard SPS, then somewhere along the way the active model became the SMA 4000TL-US-22, also referred to just as the SMA 4000TL-US, with two MPPT inputs, and on the data sheet the SPS still showed as standard rather than optional but the actual delivered product did not match that data sheet.
Looks like a major screw up by SMA, abetted by lack of follow through by the installer.

[Volusiano]

Let's try to be very careful about how we describe these inverters.
Did you really get the SMA 4000TL-US or did you get the newer SMA 4000TL-US-22?
If you got a non-22 and it did not include the SPS, then I think the only out that SMA might have it the usual "specifications subject to change without notice, even if that means we send you something other than what we advertised and you paid for" dodge.
If you got the -22 model, then the big problem is that SMA started selling them long before they documented them properly.

The data sheet on the sma-america.com website still lists the -22 models as "preliminary data, models available in Feb 2014" and does not even actually include any preliminary data! It is now September 2014 and that is still the latest data sheet.

I got the SMA 4000TL-US-22 model. My installation was in September 2013.

[egizzi]

here it is

Here is the page that clearly states the 22 model has SPS as Standard.

http://www.sma-america.com/en_US/products/grid-tied-inverters/sunny-boy/sunny-boy-with-sps-3000tl-us-3800tl-us-4000tl-us-5000tl-us-6000tl-us.html

I rest my case?

[egizzi]

It was the 22

It was the 4000TL-US-22 model, manfuctured in 8/2014.

There is clearly confusion from SMA on these models. Truth in advertising is of paramount importance.

When something is described as a "feature", it must be described as either optional or standard. And in this case, if you miss the opportunity to order the optional feature upfront, you can't order it later.

All this confusion in their product line extends down to the installers and the customers.

The installer simply quoted me the 4000TL-US-22 model with no mention of SPS. I didn't explicitly ask because I thought it was standard. If it had been clear on the SMA site that is was optional, I would have inquired about it in the order. I think blame is everywhere, even with me, but I would argue that the source of the confusion is SMA. It was propagated through the installer.

I live in earthquake country. I still debate whether the SPS is a gimmicky feature or not, and whether I need it. But I was expecting it. I suppose I could ask SMA to give me the 20 year warranty for free as a compromise.

[inetdog]

I have the SMA 4KTL and my installer never told me about the SPS option either. ...

Let's try to be very careful about how we describe these inverters.
Did you really get the SMA 4000TL-US or did you get the newer SMA 4000TL-US-22?
If you got a non-22 and it did not include the SPS, then I think the only out that SMA might have it the usual "specifications subject to change without notice, even if that means we send you something other than what we advertised and you paid for" dodge.
If you got the -22 model, then the big problem is that SMA started selling them long before they documented them properly.

The data sheet on the sma-america.com website still lists the -22 models as "preliminary data, models available in Feb 2014" and does not even actually include any preliminary data! It is now September 2014 and that is still the latest data sheet.

[Volusiano]

I had the SMA 4000TL-US-22 installed this week. Nice to have my system up and running.

However, it has no Secure Power Supply (SPS) as part of it. I've emailed the installer asking why. Now I think I know why.

If you go to the SMA site, they describe the SPS as a feature, not as an option. However, as I read in my manual (obtained after purchase), it is described as an option and one that is not retrofittable. In other words, if you don't order it up-front, you cannot add it on later.

That is very frustrating. I will call SMA on Monday, but I feel a bit duped. I have scoured their site and the multitude of sites that talk about the SPS and nowhere does it mention that you have to specifically request it. It appears it is not standard

I have the SMA 4KTL and my installer never told me about the SPS option either. I found out about it later. I've always assumed that it's already built-in and it'd just be a matter of wiring out from the box to an outlet, which is the part that my installer never did. I didn't realize that it's an option that has to be ordered up front and if not, would not be retrofittable.

We rarely have power outage in our area so it's really not an issue for us whether we have the SPS or not. On top of that, my installer gave me a 20 year whole system warranty with the inverters included at no extra cost for warranty extension, so I'm not complaining. In fact, in their original quote (I had mine installed last year), they didn't specify the new 4KTL, they only specified the old 4K. So I have to give them some credit for upgrading to a 4KTL automatically for my install, probably because it's become available at the time of the install, but not a few months before at the time of the quote.

[inetdog]

I had the SMA 4000TL-US-22 installed this week. Nice to have my system up and running.

However, it has no Secure Power Supply (SPS) as part of it. I've emailed the installer asking why. Now I think I know why.

If you go to the SMA site, they describe the SPS as a feature, not as an option. However, as I read in my manual (obtained after purchase), it is described as an option and one that is not retrofittable. In other words, if you don't order it up-front, you cannot add it on later.

That is very frustrating. I will call SMA on Monday, but I feel a bit duped. I have scoured their site and the multitude of sites that talk about the SPS and nowhere does it mention that you have to specifically request it. It appears it is not standard.

Lastly, I'm a bid bothered by my installer's incorrect information. First he told me that the extended warranty was over $800. I called SMA prior to purchase and they told me that was old data and the rough cost now is $250 for 5 years and $500 for 10 years of extension. My installer also told me that to set up the communication part for my inverter would require a WebBox and the total would be over $800. Not true. You can use the SpeedWire add-on for $150 and connect to your router through an ethernet cable which then connects to the Sunny Portal.

I prefer clarity and accuracy, especially when spending a chunk of change. Hopefully, things will get worked out.

Most importantly, the system is working well. They wired the 8 panels that are more prone to late afternoon shading onto one MPPT and the other 16 to the other MPPT.

I think that you are in very murky waters here. In particular, I can find NO documentation on the SMA website as to the status of the SPS for the -22 models. The non-22 models are clearly shown as having the SPS included and not optional. But all of the data sheets cover the non-22 models only and the downloadable owner manuals just show the -22 models in parentheses on the first page and do not even describe the existence of two MPPT inputs. The downloadable installation manual, OTOH, mentions the two inputs, but gives the somewhat confusing advice that the two strings should be configured identically!
That leaves you with whatever the dealer from whom you bought it (i.e. your installer) documented and quoted. The typical online ads (with prices) that I find for the SMA 4000TL-US-22 specifically mention the SPS, and if that is what your installer represented to you, your complaint would be with them rather than with SMA.
My guess is that for some reason SMA marketing decided to make the SPS optional on the -22 models to keep the advertised price point low and comparable to the non-22 models.

[egizzi]

All is good - almost

I had the SMA 4000TL-US-22 installed this week. Nice to have my system up and running.

However, it has no Secure Power Supply (SPS) as part of it. I've emailed the installer asking why. Now I think I know why.

If you go to the SMA site, they describe the SPS as a feature, not as an option. However, as I read in my manual (obtained after purchase), it is described as an option and one that is not retrofittable. In other words, if you don't order it up-front, you cannot add it on later.

That is very frustrating. I will call SMA on Monday, but I feel a bit duped. I have scoured their site and the multitude of sites that talk about the SPS and nowhere does it mention that you have to specifically request it. It appears it is not standard.

Lastly, I'm a bid bothered by my installer's incorrect information. First he told me that the extended warranty was over $800. I called SMA prior to purchase and they told me that was old data and the rough cost now is $250 for 5 years and $500 for 10 years of extension. My installer also told me that to set up the communication part for my inverter would require a WebBox and the total would be over $800. Not true. You can use the SpeedWire add-on for $150 and connect to your router through an ethernet cable which then connects to the Sunny Portal.

I prefer clarity and accuracy, especially when spending a chunk of change. Hopefully, things will get worked out.

Most importantly, the system is working well. They wired the 8 panels that are more prone to late afternoon shading onto one MPPT and the other 16 to the other MPPT.

[bcroe]

Where, as a practical matter, "same" means within +/- 5%. Maybe even 10% if you do not mind getting boosted by less than the full rated power of the new string.

My inclination is to have the same number of cells in each string. Bruce Roe

[inetdog]

But with proper fusing
you can always add a string having the same V max power to an existing one. Bruce Roe

Where, as a practical matter, "same" means within +/- 5%. Maybe even 10% if you do not mind getting boosted by less than the full rated power of the new string.