Poor Installation, losing sleep over this

[tomatoUSA]

Hi Guys, I just had 29 solar panel installed at 20 degree pitched shingle roof a few days ago in NYC and I am losing sleep over a few things. Can you guys hear me out and let me know if I should bring up the issue with my installer now or later when problem such as leaks occur?

There are mainly four things bother me:

First, too many un-necessary drill holes WITHOUT sealing them. Check out the video, in the video he drills around 12 holes before hitting the rafter. I ask them why not locate the rafter by tapping with a hammer or measure the rafter location in the attic (I have unfinish clean attic with big skylight access), they response is this way is faster so we don’t stay here until next year. The only thing prevent water from hitting the hole is the shingle on top.

Second, Over tighten the lag bolt cause the gasket to torn. Now there is not a tight seal between bolt and Flashloc.

third, normally the lag bolt is facing down side so any water hit the bolt will just run downward and away, but they also mess up the direction, they put lag bolt side upward and sealant chamber side downward. I feel this way it increases the chance water seek into the lag bolt.

Fourth, extended distance without Flashloc, the solar plan set called for a Flashloc every 4ft but they go up to 6-7ft. According to the design the max wind speed is 116MPH but with distance extended from 4ft to 6ft, does it mean I am down to 58MPH?

Out of four things, I am most concern about the un-necessary drill holes. Please let me know what you think, should I bring these concerns up with the solar company, so the solar installer is a subcontractor for the solar company who I have the project contract with. What will you do in my situation? Thank you in advance!

https://youtube.com/shorts/V3cIDzqahiw

2-flashloc.jpg
3-torn gasket.jpg

4-upside down.jpg

correct mount.jpg

5-6ft.jpg

6-4ft.jpg
7-48oc.jpg

[Rade]

Oh my gosh! That sounds like a nightmare of an installation! I would certainly get the name of the installer and license information, along with the company that they work for. I say that because we went with a Generac system, and the roofers and electricians were 3rd party contractors to the representing company. I would hold them liable for any damage to your home as a result.

I am surprised. When we had our system installed, at various stages of the installation they coordinated with our towns building / zoning office and the fire marshal for periodic inspections before things were signed off. Primarily, the BLUEPRINTS they were to follow were submitted to the zoning office which required approval prior to any work. You live in NYC, something tells me that construction permits for this project were needed to be pulled prior to the work, and if the installers did not follow the submitted blueprints, that would be a good cause for you to litigate and have 1) a new roof installed and 2) have the work completly removed and done over to spec.

Good luck,
Rade

[J.P.M.]

I'd start by making sure the installation was permitted by checking with the bldg. inspector for the city.

[Mike 134]

"squeaky wheel will get the grease" Complain calmy, factually, with these pictures, constantly until your concerns are addressed. Do you still owe them any money?

[tomatoUSA]

Thank you Guys for all the feedback. I still owe the solar company 1/3 of total payment which is due after PTO.
I am trying to be realistic here, generally speaking installation don't end up exactly match to the design plan.
The date of the install, installer didn't even have paper copy of plan with them. I gave them a paper copy so they can easily see the layout rather on their phone.
Those of you replied, thank you again. But I don't know if you are a homeowner or installer?
What is the chance of water leak due to those unsealed hole under pitched shingle?
Is it ok to go 6-7ft span on Qcell 425 panels? Each panel is around 67.8in x 44.6in or 5.65ft x 3.71ft?

[azdave]

Homeowner here.
I watched your video of the hole drilling process. Holy cow! He drilled 12 holes in your roof to find one rafter? No way would I be happy that they drilled all those extra "prospecting" holes all over and then didn't even fill them. Even the slightest amount of driven rain will let water up under a shingle lip. I don't think it is likely that those shingle tabs will self-bond back down later either so you may have shingles lifting up in a wind storm. I understand they aren't going to hit the rafter on the first try but 12 holes before they find it and then leaving those holes as-is? It would have taken 2 seconds to fill them and greatly resist future water intrusion. The way the bolt gaskets are shown over-compressed would have me at least adding RTV sealer over the top of them at a minimum.

If the plans called out 4' spacing on the supports then that is the requirement that should have been met, no question in my opinion. It looks to me like they did a rushed job and did not follow the design plans nor the manufacturer's requirements. The Flashloc info clearly show the orientation is supposed to have the bolt on the downside and they specifically say not to over-compress the sealing washers. Have them watch this Unirac install video specifically about Flashloc installation on a asphalt shingle roof applications.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqAb9ghpcN8

I hope an installer jumps in here to tell you that even with all of these issues, all will be okay. I would be upset if it were my roof.

[J.P.M.]

Thank you Guys for all the feedback. I still owe the solar company 1/3 of total payment which is due after PTO.
I am trying to be realistic here, generally speaking installation don't end up exactly match to the design plan.
The date of the install, installer didn't even have paper copy of plan with them. I gave them a paper copy so they can easily see the layout rather on their phone.
Those of you replied, thank you again. But I don't know if you are a homeowner or installer?
What is the chance of water leak due to those unsealed hole under pitched shingle?
Is it ok to go 6-7ft span on Qcell 425 panels? Each panel is around 67.8in x 44.6in or 5.65ft x 3.71ft?

Owners are the party responsible for applying for building permits and (separately) any federal/state/local tax credits or rebates. Often, the vendor or installer does those tasks for the customer, but not always.

So, question: Do you have documentation that all the required paperwork was filed ? If so, you (probably through the installer) have had, or will have had at least one inspection of the design documents, and have had, or will have a final, physical inspection of the work by proper authority before PTO.

That (final, physical) inspection is only to see that the work performed was done to the design drawings, specs and plans, not necessarily to the quality of all the work, but if things are a bad or questionable as you write and as the photos seem to show, an inspector may question some of what was done.
Still, the system owner is responsible for holding the designers and installers to the proper performance standards and quality of the job and conformance to Building Codes and standards.

[Mike 134]

Thank you Guys for all the feedback. I still owe the solar company 1/3 of total payment which is due after PTO.
I am trying to be realistic here, generally speaking installation don't end up exactly match to the design plan.
The date of the install, installer didn't even have paper copy of plan with them. I gave them a paper copy so they can easily see the layout rather on their phone.
Those of you replied, thank you again. But I don't know if you are a homeowner or installer? HOMEOWNER/installer of my own system. Retired master electrician so has some building knowledge.
What is the chance of water leak due to those unsealed hole under pitched shingle?
Is it ok to go 6-7ft span on Qcell 425 panels? Each panel is around 67.8in x 44.6in or 5.65ft x 3.71ft?

Your leverage to getting it built per "plans and specs" is the 1/3 payment you still owe them. Never surrender your final payment till it's installed properly.

It looks like he drilled all those extra holes quite a way up from the edge of the shingle so between that and the fact the panels cover those shingles diminishes the likely hood of rain entering.
I would be very concerned with the mounts being reversed since they will gather water that runs down, and the spacing greater than 4 feet for the rail mounts since it reduces the ability to withstand strong winds.

I think you have a very strong argument that it wasn't installed per "plans and specs"

DO NOT count on your final inspection to find/call-out mistakes. I did my own install and was very disappointed how little time the final inspection took. He was only interested in the roof setbacks and disconnect locations for the firemen.

[tomatoUSA]

azDave - Thank you so much for sharing your feedback. Sometime I was wondering am I being to hard on these installer because most of time homeowner are not on the roof watching them work or taking a measuring tape to confirm the rails span again plan set. I am glad I am not the only one felt that way. In fact, the installer don't want me on the roof because my present on the roof was making them uncomfortable.

JPM - In NYC, building permit generally filed by not building owner as it is complicated and require GC license and insurance. I do know all the proper paperwork were filed because I have to sign a few of them and you are absolute right that inspector care more about paperwork rather quality of work.

Mike - You are right on points. I am too worry about the ability to withstand strong winds and reverse mounted Flashloc. Let's say the installer agree to come back and turn the Flashloc around but won't that damage the shingle as they have Chemlink on the bottom of the feeting and re-drill the rafter on the same spot won't it be as strong as before? Maybe I can ask them to use Chemlink to caulk all the head of the bolt and just leave the current Flashloc in place but add a few more to ensure 4ft or shorter span?

[J.P.M.]

azDave - Thank you so much for sharing your feedback. Sometime I was wondering am I being to hard on these installer because most of time homeowner are not on the roof watching them work or taking a measuring tape to confirm the rails span again plan set. I am glad I am not the only one felt that way. In fact, the installer don't want me on the roof because my present on the roof was making them uncomfortable.

JPM - In NYC, building permit generally filed by not building owner as it is complicated and require GC license and insurance. I do know all the proper paperwork were filed because I have to sign a few of them and you are absolute right that inspector care more about paperwork rather quality of work.

Mike - You are right on points. I am too worry about the ability to withstand strong winds and reverse mounted Flashloc. Let's say the installer agree to come back and turn the Flashloc around but won't that damage the shingle as they have Chemlink on the bottom of the feeting and re-drill the rafter on the same spot won't it be as strong as before? Maybe I can ask them to use Chemlink to caulk all the head of the bolt and just leave the current Flashloc in place but add a few more to ensure 4ft or shorter span?

I'm sure with Mike on holding back payment, but I'd respectfully differ on his statement or idea that a hole in a roof covered by a panel (or anything else for that matter) is less of a problem than an exposed opening. Rain will run down a sloped roof from where the roof is exposed to under the array. Also, the array is a pretty porous barrier. The top of my array is at the roof peak with about 13" of clearance between the underside of the array and the roof deck. During any precip. avant, the roof deck under the array is wet to the point of water running down the roof at the lower edge of the array.
Yes, the amount of moisture a roof penetration sees will be less under a panel but that's not much comfort over a time span of several years.
I can get under my array and have done so quite a bit, but if I did so in the rain, after about 1/2 hr. under the array, I'd be (and have been) about as wet if I sat on the roof next to the array.

[GoingElectric]

tomatoUSA Homeowner with PV: agree with all you suspect, they are doing a horrid job. Seems like doing a great job documenting and questioning, save it all and get ready if you need to go next level. Don't need to add to what others have posted.