Looking for wiring tips

[LeeLewis]

I've updated the diagram. Maybe this isn't that complicated now.
I can buy a large outdoor box to house combiners, inverters, etc, then use AC wiring to get into the house from the canopy.
I mainly have to figure out what amperage I'm looking at per string since my calculation was obviously wrong.

[DanS26]

The Daisy Chain and the Leapfrog method are both "series" wiring methods. Your new diagram is not clear on which series method you will use. The combiner box creates the parallel for the three arrays.

[LeeLewis]

I don't want to use series, I want three panel parallel strings to the combiner so that shading is less of an issue. You're right, I did it again LOL. I'm not very good with this diagram problem so I keep losing track of what I'm doing as I fight with it. Here is another version, this time, showing only one string of three panels wired in parallel to the combiner. Imagine of course, additional strings to the combiner. I upgraded the combiner to six inputs.

At this point, I'm thinking of the setup in this way.
Panels to combiner. Combiner to inverter. AC output to the house where I'd use the AC to charge batteries rather than the usual way such as using an inverter/device that would charge/maintain the batteries etc.

solar-parallel.png

[SunEagle]

I don't want to use series, I want three panel parallel strings to the combiner so that shading is less of an issue. You're right, I did it again LOL. I'm not very good with this diagram problem so I keep losing track of what I'm doing as I fight with it. Here is another version, this time, showing only one string of three panels wired in parallel to the combiner. Imagine of course, additional strings to the combiner. I upgraded the combiner to six inputs.

At this point, I'm thinking of the setup in this way.
Panels to combiner. Combiner to inverter. AC output to the house where I'd use the AC to charge batteries rather than the usual way such as using an inverter/device that would charge/maintain the batteries etc.

solar-parallel.png

I understand your desire to not lose power due to shading but I also thought you wanted to save money by not having a large wire between the combiner and inverter. Wiring the panels in parallel increases the amount of amps and the wire size.

[LeeLewis]

Yes, I understand that and asked about it in another comment. There is no data to show what the output is of the panels so really just kind of guessing that it's between 7 to 9amps.
If 7, I could put only 2 panels per string since the fuses are only 15 amps per input but that's pushing the fuse a little. That said, I don't know what the chances are of ever hitting that maximum amperage output anyhow. If I did three panel strings, it would blow the fuse IF it ever actually got to 15 amps. So maybe it's a trial and error thing. Worse comes to worse, I have to get a higher rated combiner to handle three panels.

This is all based on the input I've received so far and my understanding of how this has to work.

[DanS26]

Post the inverter and specs that you plan to use with this setup.

[SunEagle]

Yes, I understand that and asked about it in another comment. There is no data to show what the output is of the panels so really just kind of guessing that it's between 7 to 9amps.
If 7, I could put only 2 panels per string since the fuses are only 15 amps per input but that's pushing the fuse a little. That said, I don't know what the chances are of ever hitting that maximum amperage output anyhow. If I did three panel strings, it would blow the fuse IF it ever actually got to 15 amps. So maybe it's a trial and error thing. Worse comes to worse, I have to get a higher rated combiner to handle three panels.

This is all based on the input I've received so far and my understanding of how this has to work.

Well the panel manufacturer is required to post the Imp and Vmp on the back of each panel. That information should help you determine the amount of voltage and current the panels can generate under the best conditions.

[LeeLewis]

I posted that in another comment but here it is again; https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09BTX2YQ5

I also shared the panel details in another comment but the data sheet is with the microinverter installed so they don't talk about the panel specifically other than with AC output.
I'm making guestimates based on some info about the panel which should be pretty standard and the input of the inverter to get some idea of the panel.
I'll post that info again which is from the data sheet;

Mage / Powetec Plus, 250 / 6 PL US AC.
AC output, 240V
AC Max Cont output current, 0.992A
AC Max Cont output power, 238W

The inverters are Pantheon II.
INPUT (DC) DATA P250LV-208/240
Recommended STC Module Input Power Rating 235 W – 280 W
Maximum Continuous Input Power 250 W
Maximum Input Voltage 48V
MPPT Voltage Range 18V-37V
Maximum Power Voltage Range 25V-37V
Maximum DC Short Circuit Current 15A
Maximum Input Current 10A

[DanS26]

In post #5 you said you will not be using microinverters and your diagrams show strings. Now you're going back to micros........? Sorry, I don't think I can help you any more. Good luck.

[SunEagle]

I posted that in another comment but here it is again; https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09BTX2YQ5

I also shared the panel details in another comment but the data sheet is with the microinverter installed so they don't talk about the panel specifically other than with AC output.
I'm making guestimates based on some info about the panel which should be pretty standard and the input of the inverter to get some idea of the panel.
I'll post that info again which is from the data sheet;

Mage / Powetec Plus, 250 / 6 PL US AC.
AC output, 240V
AC Max Cont output current, 0.992A
AC Max Cont output power, 238W

The inverters are Pantheon II.
INPUT (DC) DATA P250LV-208/240
Recommended STC Module Input Power Rating 235 W – 280 W
Maximum Continuous Input Power 250 W
Maximum Input Voltage 48V
MPPT Voltage Range 18V-37V
Maximum Power Voltage Range 25V-37V
Maximum DC Short Circuit Current 15A
Maximum Input Current 10A

That is the inverter data. Not the panel DC data.

You should also have the panel data which is usually on a nameplate on the back of the panel. It should provide you with a Wattage, Imp, Vmp, Voc and short circuit amp rating. But it is possible that when you wire an individual inverter to each panel they might not give you the panel DC rating.

Without the DC data for each panel you might have to guess both the Vmp and Imp amounts to wire them the way you want to going to a single inverter.

[LeeLewis]

In post #5 you said you will not be using microinverters and your diagrams show strings. Now you're going back to micros........? Sorry, I don't think I can help you any more. Good luck.

Uh? I am removing the inverters to convert some of the grid tied system to a DC setup. I'm not sure where you got that. Maybe I mentioned the possibility of using non grid tied converters but I don't remember posting that, it was just a thought.

Yes, I looked at the panels closely, there's nothing on them that gives any information on output.
Since the inverters accept 18-37 up to a max of 48VDC, and the panels on average are putting out 32VDC, this tells me my panels are max 48VDC.
I need to get up there again to get some averages on amperage.

Even in the power manager, there's no actual information about current but I can use the info shown I suppose to figure that out.

solar-output.png

[SunEagle]

Uh? I am removing the inverters to convert some of the grid tied system to a DC setup. I'm not sure where you got that. Maybe I mentioned the possibility of using non grid tied converters but I don't remember posting that, it was just a thought.

Yes, I looked at the panels closely, there's nothing on them that gives any information on output.
Since the inverters accept 18-37 up to a max of 48VDC, and the panels on average are putting out 32VDC, this tells me my panels are max 48VDC. Checking the output, I saw around 32VDC on average. I to get up there again to get some averages on amperage.

Even in the power manager, there's no actual information about current but I can use the info shown I suppose to figure that out.

Without the panel information (which it seems you have not been given) you would be guessing the open voltage that each panel can generate. That may not be an issue but you could exceed teh max DCV that the inverter can accept.

The rest (Vmp & Imp) can be gotten through testing but I now understand that changing a solar system that uses micros to a string is not always easy. I would say that the panels can generate 32VDC as close to the Vmp rating. And unless there is some type of markings showing the panel wattage it will be hard to calculate the Imp for each panel which affects the wire size and voltage drop calculation.

[LeeLewis]

Correct and that's been the problem, not being able to get enough information and doing a lot of guessing.
I have this spec sheet on the panel but as mentioned, it includes the micro-inverter as part of the specs. Still useful, showing the panels max continuous output is 238W.
By knowing the max inputs of the micro-inverters, that could help me to get to a starting point of testing.

I could start by wiring three panels in series, connecting that string to one of the combiner inputs.
At worse, I'll blow a fuse during testing but I could monitor the output long before getting to an inverter. I've not purchased an inverter yet so my options are open.

panels-250_6_PL-US-AC-208-240-Datasheet_Rev1.pdf

[SunEagle]

Well if the pane is rated 238W and the Vmp is around 32V then the output amps for each panel is around 7 to 8. (238W / 32V = 7.43 amps). So maybe a guess of 8 amps and 32 volts is a starting place.

[LeeLewis]

I initially thought each panel might be putting out under one amp so it looks like I have to seek out a new combiner since the inputs are only 15 amps.
I wondered how installers might deal with that. I guess a two panel string.