Im a newbie and i need help with planning my system

[inetdog]

If I use a central inverter all my power will be as strong as my weekest panel right?

No, not right.
Each commercial panel has bypass diodes in it that will effectively bypass it (hence the name) when it cannot produce as much current at the rest of the string.
That means that the new string Vmp voltage will be that of the remaining panels, minus a few volts for losses in the bypass diodes.
You will not lose the power of the entire string.
On the other hand, if you have two strings in parallel into one MPPT input and only one string is partially shaded, the shaded string will only contribute when it is operating at the same voltage as the unshaded string. That means that in that specific case, you will likely get from that string only the limited amount of current that the shaded panel(s) can provide.

[SunEagle]

It is kind of sad that the discussion keeps getting side tracked concerning micro processors and shade.

The point is the system the OP wants is HUGE. He wants something > 30kw tied to the grid, with batteries and not use a generator.

Does anyone see a problem with this concept? Even with a 48 volt battery system we are talking about 625 amps of charge controllers (30,000 watts / 48 volts = 625 amps).

I don't care if he can find panels < $1/watt the cost for panels, CC's, batteries, etc. will still be in excess of $50,000.

[shadowaxe356]

Weakest panel? What and why is that?

This is something one of the manuals had said about solar power. I downloaded about 6 different manuals on information about solar systems.

[russ]

This is something one of the manuals had said about solar power. I downloaded about 6 different manuals on information about solar systems.

You found some of the 75% BS stuff available on the net I guess.

[Living Large]

It is kind of sad that the discussion keeps getting side tracked concerning micro processors and shade.

The point is the system the OP wants is HUGE. He wants something > 30kw tied to the grid, with batteries and not use a generator.

Does anyone see a problem with this concept? Even with a 48 volt battery system we are talking about 625 amps of charge controllers (30,000 watts / 48 volts = 625 amps).

I don't care if he can find panels < $1/watt the cost for panels, CC's, batteries, etc. will still be in excess of $50,000.

Agree 100%. There are multiple aspects that one could get into, but starting with the big picture seems wise. I'm grabbing some popcorn, because this one has potential. That's a mighty large system - if he has batteries couldn't it be more like $100K+? And that is without a generator.

[Sunking]

It is kind of sad that the discussion keeps getting side tracked concerning micro processors and shade.

The point is the system the OP wants is HUGE. He wants something > 30kw tied to the grid, with batteries and not use a generator.

Does anyone see a problem with this concept?

Yeah and exactly why I am not going to help. Will never happen.

[shadowaxe356]

Man, people just give up on the younger generation....
So that everyone knows I wont be able to have this system running or set up for probably another two years, Im hoping that something (product wise) comes out to help with some of the bigger issues or that I can make enough to support the system that I need. So any information or side subject that helps me learn about solar panels and systems is not waited time. I don't really want the battery's for the system off the rip, I will defiantly use the power/credits from the amount I would be producing with the on grid system I would like. I just want the ability to switch over to battery's when I am finished with the rest the system, if I need to. So I would like to start with a hybrid system that way I don't waste money down the road by purchasing a on grid inverter and halving to switch that out to a hybrid and get new permits etc for it. If this project will be 100k+ then I would still want to know the set up and what I need because i'm 23, I have time to collect money and resources.

[Living Large]

Man, people just give up on the younger generation....
So that everyone knows I wont be able to have this system running or set up for probably another two years, Im hoping that something (product wise) comes out to help with some of the bigger issues or that I can make enough to support the system that I need. So any information or side subject that helps me learn about solar panels and systems is not waited time. I don't really want the battery's for the system off the rip, I will defiantly use the power/credits from the amount I would be producing with the on grid system I would like. I just want the ability to switch over to battery's when I am finished with the rest the system, if I need to. So I would like to start with a hybrid system that way I don't waste money down the road by purchasing a on grid inverter and halving to switch that out to a hybrid and get new permits etc for it. If this project will be 100k+ then I would still want to know the set up and what I need because i'm 23, I have time to collect money and resources.

The wagged figure of $100K was if you had batteries in a typical setup with a daily usage like you mentioned - which it sounds like you won't have - so scratch that.

[SunEagle]

Man, people just give up on the younger generation....
So that everyone knows I wont be able to have this system running or set up for probably another two years, Im hoping that something (product wise) comes out to help with some of the bigger issues or that I can make enough to support the system that I need. So any information or side subject that helps me learn about solar panels and systems is not waited time. I don't really want the battery's for the system off the rip, I will defiantly use the power/credits from the amount I would be producing with the on grid system I would like. I just want the ability to switch over to battery's when I am finished with the rest the system, if I need to. So I would like to start with a hybrid system that way I don't waste money down the road by purchasing a on grid inverter and halving to switch that out to a hybrid and get new permits etc for it. If this project will be 100k+ then I would still want to know the set up and what I need because i'm 23, I have time to collect money and resources.

Tyler

On a serious side we are trying to help you understand the size and cost of what you want to do. Sure you can save money by installing it yourself but you first need to meet all your local building code requirements which will include engineered drawings submitted to the city for a permit. You also need to meet all of your POCO's requirements before you can connect to the Grid.

You also should determine how much of your electric bill you want a solar pv system to offset. Going more than 50% is usually not cost effective unless you are using a lot and paying a very high $/kWh. And adding batteries as a backup makes the system into something that will never pay for itself.

My suggestion is to look at a smaller system around 8 to 10kw that will be grid tied to your POCO. Then if you want an emergency power backup look into getting a couple of generators using different types of fuel (gas and propane) to give you some overlap. Using batteries for emergency backup will be too expensive and really can't be justified if you have a connection to the grid.

Now start saving your money and hopefully in a couple of years the technology will have improved where panels can produce more and cost less and maybe there will be some type of power "storage" less expensive then it is now.

[shadowaxe356]

Tyler

On a serious side we are trying to help you understand the size and cost of what you want to do. Sure you can save money by installing it yourself but you first need to meet all your local building code requirements which will include engineered drawings submitted to the city for a permit. You also need to meet all of your POCO's requirements before you can connect to the Grid.

You also should determine how much of your electric bill you want a solar pv system to offset. Going more than 50% is usually not cost effective unless you are using a lot and paying a very high $/kWh. And adding batteries as a backup makes the system into something that will never pay for itself.

My suggestion is to look at a smaller system around 8 to 10kw that will be grid tied to your POCO. Then if you want an emergency power backup look into getting a couple of generators using different types of fuel (gas and propane) to give you some overlap. Using batteries for emergency backup will be too expensive and really can't be justified if you have a connection to the grid.

Now start saving your money and hopefully in a couple of years the technology will have improved where panels can produce more and cost less and maybe there will be some type of power "storage" less expensive then it is now.

I know the cost will be high, and I want to have 100% offset. I am using to much energy and I can not limit what I already use. I live with to many people and they all have to many things they refuse to unplug. That is why im trying to go for the big system. This system will run one house, with two family in it at 100% efficiency having to pay only in the winter months for any electric. Currently we used 2,950KWH last month so im using that month as a bases for all the months. Even without it being winter I still had an electric bill that was 2,100 KWH a month on average. The family that lives in the duplex will be adding some money for the system but not a lot due to the length of there stay.

[SunEagle]

I know the cost will be high, and I want to have 100% offset. I am using to much energy and I can not limit what I already use. I live with to many people and they all have to many things they refuse to unplug. That is why im trying to go for the big system. This system will run one house, with two family in it at 100% efficiency having to pay only in the winter months for any electric. Currently we used 2,950KWH last month so im using that month as a bases for all the months. Even without it being winter I still had an electric bill that was 2,100 KWH a month on average. The family that lives in the duplex will be adding some money for the system but not a lot due to the length of there stay.

I understand your position and feel your pain. If other people are currently running up your electric bill then installing solar is not going to immediately save you money. Small systems take years to pay back what you first pay to get them installed. Larger systems can take longer.

My suggestion for you is to continue to do the research in what type of system you really "need" and start saving to get it installed.

But your first action to to find a way to convince the others to use less electricity. That will have an immediate result of reducing your costs. Letting them continue to use a lot of power only to have you spend big dollars to install the solar will more than likely end up just convincing them to use more "free" power which will cost you a lot more. The best way to save money on your electric bill is to use less. Installing solar may not get you what you want.

[shadowaxe356]

I understand your position and feel your pain. If other people are currently running up your electric bill then installing solar is not going to immediately save you money. Small systems take years to pay back what you first pay to get them installed. Larger systems can take longer.

My suggestion for you is to continue to do the research in what type of system you really "need" and start saving to get it installed.

But your first action to to find a way to convince the others to use less electricity. That will have an immediate result of reducing your costs. Letting them continue to use a lot of power only to have you spend big dollars to install the solar will more than likely end up just convincing them to use more "free" power which will cost you a lot more. The best way to save money on your electric bill is to use less. Installing solar may not get you what you want.

The pay back dosent matter to me, I know that may baffle some of you but the way I see it is rather im going to add to the house value and sell it or im going to keep it in my family till its completely outdated. I want a large system and the only way im going to settle for less would be if its impossible to do or I can find something that will still meet my power needs for less. What do you mean by the system I really need? I have tried to implement energy saving things but the majority of the people that live with me are my elder family. Im 23 and everyone pretty much lives with me, have no respect and will not use less. The solar power is for myself, when they move out I will be converting there part of the house into my work area, where I will be working with all sorts of power tools and other things that use electricity. So even when they leave I will still be using the same or close electricity for my side job, wood working, other home improvement projects, and more.

[sensij]

I want a large system and the only way im going to settle for less would be if its impossible to do or I can find something that will still meet my power needs for less.

You know what will meet your power needs for less? Your power company.

[Mike90250]

.....

But your first action to to find a way to convince the others to use less electricity. That will have an immediate result of reducing your costs. Letting them continue to use a lot of power only to have you spend big dollars to install the solar will more than likely end up just convincing them to use more "free" power which will cost you a lot more. The best way to save money on your electric bill is to use less. Installing solar may not get you what you want.

Exactly what I was going to say, but you beat me to it. We have solar, so it's all free !!! And we have to have backup generator, 'cause if power goes off, I'd be lost.

Buy me a pony daddy.

[Mike90250]

I don’t own the house I’m in and I cannot make changes to anything that the house uses

uh, what part of this do I not understand ? Are your parents (family) the owners? Do you expect to inherit the property? if you invest into all the solar gear and someone else takes the property, or you loose it in Probate (lawyers know exactly how much an estate is worth, and they settle just as soon as their fees reach 90% of the estate value). You are up the Creek with no paddle.

You are looking at a HUGE investment in Solar, but if you are not able to undertake the first step of Conservation of power, you are going to be screwing only yourself. I don't know you, but I still care about solar getting a bad rap, from an installation that is being run bassackwards.

The $10K you spend in efficiency, saves you $30k short term, and even more long term. But don't take some strangers advice off the internet, you seem to have your plan all set up.