Hi from Davao, Philippines, A newby! arrives!

[AraiBob]

price to install PV plus batteries is too expensive

hello araibob, like you i also find the electric bills here in davao ridiculous, half of the bill is goes to charges that we do not even know where they got it...my monthly bill is at php 20,000, but the generation charges is only php 12,000. so you have php 8,000 that goes to those extra charges. since as sunking and the other guys says its foolish to place it within the grid because unlike the states where they pay you back, here you would be giving it for free..and that sucks a lot. i was thinking of getting off the grid, switching the power to pvs and if possible wind turbines in the day, and maybe switching on the grid at night, please do let me know if this is more sensible and practical....and where you able to install the pvs here in davao? if so...where can i get it? i really am hyped up to install this....i am already sick and tired paying this yahoos in our electric company too much money when in fact we get most of our power from hydro and steam.

I got a few estimates, without a detailed list of parts etc. I estimated I needed 12 KW, cost was about 3 million pesos. It would take many years before I saw a 'break even' on this price. I saw newspaper articles in which the PH congress is discussing the grid tie option, again. So, the topic is on their minds, but we cannot know when anything productive might come.

However, I believe that 'market' forces will make them come to some sensible conclusions within a few years. Therefor I will wait. If they do it right, the cost will come down (a lot), and the electric companies will make the process easy. The above cost included batteries. I would love to avoid batteries. I don't see anything good from having a hundred batteries in a hut. [I don't know exactly how many batteries, just guessing].

Best Regards, Practicing Patience in Philippines

[ianlozada.md]

I am talking with a solar PV provider in Manila, and he confirms there is no electric company in PHilippines that will let you Grid Tie. That means NO net metering, etc. I would have to go off grid, if I wanted to do Solar PV.

hello araibob, like you i also find the electric bills here in davao ridiculous, half of the bill is goes to charges that we do not even know where they got it...my monthly bill is at php 20,000, but the generation charges is only php 12,000. so you have php 8,000 that goes to those extra charges. since as sunking and the other guys says its foolish to place it within the grid because unlike the states where they pay you back, here you would be giving it for free..and that sucks a lot. i was thinking of getting off the grid, switching the power to pvs and if possible wind turbines in the day, and maybe switching on the grid at night, please do let me know if this is more sensible and practical....and where you able to install the pvs here in davao? if so...where can i get it? i really am hyped up to install this....i am already sick and tired paying this yahoos in our electric company too much money when in fact we get most of our power from hydro and steam.

[Sunny Solar]

I gave all the bad news about meters in Phils in post #6..
I cant understand what he is running to consume that much power either at his orig home in USA or Phils.
I run 3 refrigerators and 6 freezers and other appliances. Only lights on solar at all times.
If he needs to reduce his power bill conservation is the best answer . nothing else comes close.
Also solar hot water system works fantastic in Phils and repays itself in very short time.Its always summer.

[Sunny Solar]

Sunking you cant just say for Phils there is a 100% import duty .That is far to simplistic.

Import duty is mostly based on the whim or the bribe you paid the customs officer .
I paid $500 on $2100 worth of solar panels to the customs officer instead of the official $1200.

Now this is how it usually officially works,

paid $60 on a $20 angle grinder
paid $11 on a $90 auto darkening welding helmet.

How this works,
They have a book of items and their value,
only item under angle grinder was a top line Makita Valued there at $120 so duty $60 ON ANY GRINDER
Their listed welding helmet . cheap hand held face shield Valued there about $20 so the best and most expensive.you can buy duty is $11.
Problem with things bought there almost impossible get them to honour warranty. Its why I take what ever possible in luggage from Australia and pay no duty on anything.. "nothing to declare" sometimes pay 500 peso to nosey officer $12.50 its ok

[AraiBob]

Retirement vrs working...

At 3.6 P/kwh, that's about 8 us cents/kwh. That's already something to be happy about. Most part of the Philippines charges 400% for their electricity. I believe you have a massive hydro power plant near you. I think it would take you a bit longer to recover your investment considering there are no incentives, rebates etc. higher cost of panels and equipment and the low electric rates. Better ask the local electric company if they do have a clear guideline on the use of solar power. Do a feasibility study to see if going solar is good.

I agree that the price of electricity here is lower than California. On the high side, if I get a bill for PHP10,000, that is about USD250. My CA bill was more like USD1400. Difference is I was earning in CA. In Philippines I am 'spending' not earning. If they double the bill, it will take a sizeable chunk out of my monthly pension check. I do have some savings outside the pension, and that was where I can make 'investments' like solar PV, in order to save on the day to day expenses.

For example, I just switched to collecting rainwater, from paying for delivered water. We get enough rain, that I won't have to order water but a few times a year. I have three 1,100 gallon tanks. in the month since I installed them, rain filled them up and kept filling beyond the capacity (overflowed). only in the last week has the water level gone down in the tanks. The 3 tanks should last for two months without rain. This 'expense' to switch cost about USD400. I already had gutters, and tanks. I just needed to route the water to the tanks, and to put 'gutter guards'. Job done.

[Sunking]

I am talking with a solar PV provider in Manila, and he confirms there is no electric company in PHilippines that will let you Grid Tie. That means NO net metering, etc. I would have to go off grid, if I wanted to do Solar PV.

Well that makes things easy for you to decide. Forget about it.

[AraiBob]

Electric Generation Charge is half of the bill.

Araibob I cant follow your two threads on this one you say you use ..1259 kwh and on the other thread you say you use up to p10,000 at p3.6 per kwh.. That is about 2700 kwh ...Thats a big difference???
Also something Sunking does not seem to know about where you are , the meters there read power BOTH ways so if your solar panels put power back into the grid you will be charged for that power.. Everything else he said is correct..

Bottom line you cant save money going solar power in Phils. Its not like USA where you get tax incentives and in many cases the power company pays you for power you generate in excess of what you use during the day.

The P3.6 per kwh is accurate. However, they add enough other charges that the actual bill is just over double the electric generation charges.

As an analyst, I am examining whether this idea [Solar PV in Philippines] is feasable. Based on results so far, NOT feasable. So I will go back to my retirement 'duties' now.

Best regards, AraiBob

[AraiBob]

I just confirmed there is NO net metering.

You have a huge flaw in your analogy. If the utilty does not have NET METERING, you cannot go Grid Tied. Well you can but any excess you generate you would be giving away, and then the utility takes that free electricity you gave them for free, and sell it to your neighbor.

I am talking with a solar PV provider in Manila, and he confirms there is no electric company in PHilippines that will let you Grid Tie. That means NO net metering, etc. I would have to go off grid, if I wanted to do Solar PV.

[Sunking]

Well correct me if I am wrong but I believe in the Philippines there is a 100% import duty tax? In addition the equipment will have a base price much higher than say the USA? If those two asumptions are true then you are looking a around $15/watt for a grid tied system.

All that coupled with dirt cheap electricity and no NET METERING means not even your Grand Children would ever see a pay off. You would get better results burning your money in the fireplace as that way you would get some heat out of it.

[Sunny Solar]

AXIS 11 It would take at least 426 yrs and 2 months to recover the money outlaid for going solar. I just dont see that its really a good investment.

[axis11]

At 3.6 P/kwh, that's about 8 us cents/kwh. That's already something to be happy about. Most part of the Philippines charges 400% for their electricity. I believe you have a massive hydro power plant near you. I think it would take you a bit longer to recover your investment considering there are no incentives, rebates etc. higher cost of panels and equipment and the low electric rates. Better ask the local electric company if they do have a clear guideline on the use of solar power. Do a feasibility study to see if going solar is good.

[Sunny Solar]

The important thing for Arabibob to know is if he really did do a grid tie system in Phils his power bill would increase not decrease.. Not a great incentive to do one.

[Sunking]

Also something Sunking does not seem to know about where you are , the meters there read power BOTH ways so if your solar panels put power back into the grid you will be charged for that power.. Everything else he said is correct..

Older meters run backwards or gives credit. That is why Electric Companies have fraud departments and starting changing out older meters. All you had to do is plug your meter upside down to run it backwards. Newer modern meters run forwards regardless of which way the are plugged or or which direction the power flows.

[Sunny Solar]

Araibob I cant follow your two threads on this one you say you use ..1259 kwh and on the other thread you say you use up to p10,000 at p3.6 per kwh.. That is about 2700 kwh ...Thats a big difference???
Also something Sunking does not seem to know about where you are , the meters there read power BOTH ways so if your solar panels put power back into the grid you will be charged for that power.. Everything else he said is correct..

Bottom line you cant save money going solar power in Phils. Its not like USA where you get tax incentives and in many cases the power company pays you for power you generate in excess of what you use during the day.

[Sunking]

I survived the electrical pricing and shortage nonsense of 2000 and 2001 in CA, where one newscaster noted that if only one in 20 homes had PV panels then, there would have never been an issue.

That newscaster was smoking funny stuff. Solar would have not made one bit of difference. Here is a fact: In 2000 and 2001 California imported roughly 15% of their electricity from neighboring states. Since that time they started going to Renewable Energy and quit building conventional power plants, California now imports 33% of their electrical power. Sooner rather than later California will Black Out and their is nothing they can do to prevent it. Neighboring states will not be able to keep up demand and will have to cut-off power to California.