Philippines Represent!!

[hustin]

OK Bob you said you were an annalist, so analyze this.

To generate 42 Kwh of usable off-grid battery power in your location in August will take.

Solar Panel Wattage = 10,500 watts or $21,000 in the USA USD
Battery Capacity = 200 Kwh = $42,000 and 12,000 pounds of toxic lead and acid.
MPPT Charge Controller = 2 80 Amp units @ $800 per unit = $1600
Industrial 6 Kw TSW Inverter = $5000
Spill containment, racks, materials, hardware, wiring, and distribution $10,000
Labor = Not Included.

Rough Equipment Estimate = $80,000 USD in the USA. In Phil likely twice or more.

Now here is the fun part to analyze. You get to replace those $42,000 batteries every 5 to 7 years at even higher cost. How does that compete, sorry I mean how does that compute in your analysis.

haha love the fun part!

all the zeroes are making me dizzy!

[Sunny Solar]

Hustin the meter going front ways back ways or sideways is not the big problem.. The real cost is little things like inverters charge controllers and racking for solar panels and grid tie panels and a few dozen deep cycle batteries. And at the moment its only Meralco that is supplying those meters. Most other power co.ops have never even heard of them. And more importantly its not even in the co ops laws to use or provide them. And mabe wont for 10 yrs.

As you very well know you cant go down to the local solar supply store and order them and have a jeepney deliver them tomorrow afternoon and have the solar installers come the following day to install it.. Finding ANYONE that has ANY idea about a large solar install is NOT going to be easy. Gee its hard enough to find someone that can install a split AC. safely . Im ok I do everything myself to 90% Australian standards.including ALL Australian 3 wire power points and Australian plugs and power outlets. And approved circuit breakers from Aus not the non approved ones there .

Nearly all the components are going to be imported . I bring all mine from Australia. And that is a BIG problem he would be facing and its not going to happen for under about 2,000,000 peso..

[Sunny Solar]

Sunking you dont have to worry about toxic lead and acid there in Phils. some kids will will tip all the acid either on the ground or down a drain.(it kills germs in the drain) and they will get the lead from the cases and then??? sell it after playing with it. There are no approved recycling places .and no no approved ones either.

[hustin]

Hustin the meter going front ways back ways or sideways is not the big problem.. The real cost is little things like inverters charge controllers and racking for solar panels and grid tie panels and a few dozen deep cycle batteries. And at the moment its only Meralco that is supplying those meters. Most other power co.ops have never even heard of them. And more importantly its not even in the co ops laws to use or provide them. And mabe wont for 10 yrs.

As you very well know you cant go down to the local solar supply store and order them and have a jeepney deliver them tomorrow afternoon and have the solar installers come the following day to install it.. Finding ANYONE that has ANY idea about a large solar install is NOT going to be easy. Gee its hard enough to find someone that can install a split AC. safely . Im ok I do everything myself to 90% Australian standards.including ALL Australian 3 wire power points and Australian plugs and power outlets. And approved circuit breakers from Aus not the non approved ones there .

Nearly all the components are going to be imported . I bring all mine from Australia. And that is a BIG problem he would be facing and its not going to happen for under about 2,000,000 peso..

actually for grid tie, the only problem would be the batteries since batteries are the ones you have to replace every 5 or so years and are hella expensive. the other components require minimal maintenance, meaning the only thing to worry about is the initial cost and maybe a few replacements here and there. if you go grid tie, no need for batteries. if you go off grid, then the meter isn't needed. unless you're going combo.

this discussion can go on and on, so i suggest you read up on the RA 9513. everything we're arguing about in terms of the meter replacement, net metering, tax incentives etc. are in there. would attach it but file's too big. i'll gladly send it to your email if you want.

i know going solar is expensive. but like i said, if the initial cost isn't an issue (for GRID TIE), then go for it by all means.

[hustin]

Sunking you dont have to worry about toxic lead and acid there in Phils. some kids will will tip all the acid either on the ground or down a drain.(it kills germs in the drain) and they will get the lead from the cases and then??? sell it after playing with it. There are no approved recycling places .and no no approved ones either.

dude stop hating, seriously, if you don't have anything good to say, then don't say anything at all. you live here too after all.

[Sunny Solar]

Sorry, but thems the facts.

[Sunny Solar]

As I have nothing good to say I might as well say some more that you will consider not good but some will see it as fact

Lets take Senkings figure of $80,000 all in but reduce it to $75,000 to simplify $75,000 equals 3,000,000 ok? now his power bill is 10,000 a month Total 120,000 a month max.
Now invest p3,000,000 at 4% you get p120,000. All power paid for AND you still have your p3,000,000

So why would anyone care about doing an install and its eventual failure ?

And saying at some distant time tax incentives and net metering will be available is useless. It could be 10 yrs. by this time he has paid out all that for solar system thats now at half life.

Solar systems without tax incentives to INSTALL and net metering from day one is simply throwing away good money .

Solar system saves?? NOT THIS TIME.

[hustin]

Here are a few things why i don't think we will ever reach an agreement:
1. you're talking off grid, i'm talking grid tie
2. you're in the province, i'm in the city. (agree that there it may take 10yrs, but definitely not here. probably in a year)
3. you import your equipment from australia (very expensive), while i get mine from China directly

Also, yes i know the facts, but i don't go around telling the world where in fact, no ones really asking.

one thing we can both agree on, i would never consider nor recommend off-grid due to the very high costs. GRID TIE yes, off grid never.

[Sunny Solar]

Hustin in a year im willing to bet you will still be saying "in a year".. Nothing happens that fast in Phils . You know it just almost forever to implement any changes .

And Araibob is NOT in NCR either.

[hustin]

Hustin in a year im willing to bet you will still be saying "in a year".. Nothing happens that fast in Phils . You know it just almost forever to implement any changes .

And Araibob is NOT in NCR either.

I agree that nothing happens that fast. that RA was passed in 2008, so it should be due by this time lol.

on a serious note, we actually installed solar substations in Luneta park, and installed grid tie system in manila city hall's new building. that's why pressure's on the Dept of energy to implement since gov't is in support of renewable energy. i don't say these things for the sake of saying it, i say it because i've been directly in contact with DOE, and all concerned agencies

[hustin]

Hustin in a year im willing to bet you will still be saying "in a year".. Nothing happens that fast in Phils . You know it just almost forever to implement any changes .

And Araibob is NOT in NCR either.

oh and ever been to Davao? it's a pretty developed city, crime rate is very very low there since local govt there is one of the best. case and point, their international airport has flights directly to the US, so it's not really a "province".

[hustin]

jsut to change your perception that no one's doing anything:

https://www.doe.gov.ph/news/PressReleases.asp?attach=664

DOE to Light Off-Grid Homes

MEDIA RELEASE
July 24, 2012

The Department of Energy (DOE) is set to electrify off-grid residential areas in Aklan, Antique, Palawan, and Davao del Norte under the Nationwide Residential Lighting Program component of the Asian Development Bank (ADB)-funded Philippine Energy Efficiency Project (PEEP).

PEEP aims to demonstrate the societal benefits of implementing EE&C projects in the commercial, residential and government sectors, notably the reduction of both the demand for electricity and the emission of greenhouse gases.

A total of 223 households located in Antique (76), Aklan (30), Palawan (57), and Davao del Norte (60) will benefit from the free installation of efficient technology demonstration package consisting of six (6) pieces of LED lamps, lockable battery, mounting structure, charge controller with built-in AM/FM radio, and outlets for cellphone charger to be powered by photovoltaic solar home systems in lieu of kerosene and candles. Deployment of the systems will start in July 2012 and will take about two (2) months to complete.

Overall, the project is expected to generate savings of 26,524 kWh equivalent to PhP 238,716 and avoidance of 11,140 kilograms or 11 tonnes of carbon dioxide.

This project is made possible through the cooperation of the Team Energy Foundation Inc., the local governments of Aklan, Antique, Palawan, and Davao del Norte, and the following electric cooperatives: Palawan Electric Cooperative, Inc., Aklan Electric Cooperative, Inc., and Davao del Norte Electric Cooperative, Inc. The Project beneficiaries are households in the following localities: Sitios of Tabay and Hunugtan in Brgy. Patria, Pandan, Antique; Sitio Buenavista in Brgy. Libang, Makato, Aklan; Sitios Candes and Cabaeran in Brgy. Manalo, Puerto Princesa, Palawan; and, Sitio Sagrada in Kaputian District, Island City of Samal, Davao del Norte.

[hustin]

I have one air-con that runs 24 hrs a day, where I have my computer. A half-horsepower Carrier window type air-con. I have a ref and a freezer. and other stuff that runs 24 hrs a day.

buy a hybrid solar airconditioning unit. have it in my house and reduced consumption of A/C by around 60% per use (i attached a meter to monitor the consumption). same concept as the solar water heater. but instead collects heat and helps take load off the compressor by assisting in heating up the refrigerant.

[Sunny Solar]

I have been to Davao but would not want to live there .There are more kidnappings and murders of foreigners in Mindanao that any other part of the country. I also dont like the very strong Muslim influence there. Sure thats not mabe others opinion but its mine.

[Sunny Solar]

Hustin hereis one example of why I not believe much real progress will be made in Phils. Here is a clipping from a 2004 major newspaper..
Tuesday, August 31, 2004

Rural homes without electricity get chance to receive solar power

Source: Philippine Daily Inquirer


"For as low as P343 per month, rural households in areas not reached by electricity will have the chance to use modern conveniences such as television sets, electric lights, karaokes and radio sets through solar power energy. Last week, the Negros Oriental provincial government, the Shell Solar Philippines Corp. and the Southern Sun Solar Power Corp. signed a memorandum of agreement that seeks to give solar-powered systems in rural areas through heavily-discounted loan packages."

Seems ok?

Well only 8 houses were done.. Now the really bad news.. after 6 months the batteries were destroyed by over discharge. and then sold by ? and the Aluminium was stripped off the panels and used by others.
That was the end of that.

Things like this happen always. In Palawan in about 2006? farmers were given pumps and solar panels and batteries. Because the people dont understand how far you can discharge a battery They lasted 3 or 4 months only. As people connected 12v lamps to the batteries at night and while ever they gave light they were kept on.The pumps were sold for scrap metal by the farmers.

2006 there were 10 electric multicabs built and opperated in Makati. With much government hoo har but they only lasted months as vehicles were as always were grossly overloaded and destroyed the motors and batteries.. THE END