Philippines Represent!!

[hustin]

Hi, sorry already posted before even introducing myself!

i'm hustin, and electrical engineer in the Philippines!!

Glad to meet all of you and i'm looking forward to learning and sharing knowledge the best i can!

GO PHILIPPINES!!!!

[AraiBob]

Philippines Represent!!

Hustin,

Glad to 'meet' you. I hope to get your help in the future.

I am just beginning the 'challenge' of solar power on my on-grid home near Davao City.

Bob Hyatt

[Sunny Solar]

Your major challenge Araibob is to see how much money you can spend on a solar system that will never save you money. As you must already know there are no incentives in Phils to install solar .

May I ask for what reasons you are "going solar" ?

[AraiBob]

Your major challenge Araibob is to see how much money you can spend on a solar system that will never save you money. As you must already know there are no incentives in Phils to install solar .

May I ask for what reasons you are "going solar" ?

The cost to generate power to Davao Light and Power is PHP3.6325 per KWH according to my August bill. There have been rumors that Manila is requiring Davao L&P to double this cost to all of its customers. The hint is Manila wants to divert the cheap power to Luzon, and make Mindanao pay for that diversion.

The issue is my current bill, per month is between PHP7000 and PHP10000, depending...

So, while my cost is not so high (for someone from California), doubling the price would be 'annoying'. So, I am thinking of solar power as a way to reduce the monthly bill from DLP. I wonder how so many Filipinos would be able to afford a doubled electrical bill?

[Sunking]

The cost to generate power to Davao Light and Power is PHP3.6325 per KWH according to my August bill. There have been rumors that Manila is requiring Davao L&P to double this cost to all of its customers. The hint is Manila wants to divert the cheap power to Luzon, and make Mindanao pay for that diversion.

The issue is my current bill, per month is between PHP7000 and PHP10000, depending...

So, while my cost is not so high (for someone from California), doubling the price would be 'annoying'. So, I am thinking of solar power as a way to reduce the monthly bill from DLP. I wonder how so many Filipinos would be able to afford a doubled electrical bill?

I think you are missing the point. Even if they double your electric rates, it is still a bargain. To go off-grid will cost you 10 times more all up front in cash in 5 year increments. There is no way possible to beat the utility price even if they double the price.

You have 2 choices. Pay it or do without. Going off-grid would be insane.

[Sunny Solar]

Araibob I would be over the moon with delight if I was only paying p3.6 a kwh in Leyte we pay p10.4 a kwh and even at that there is no way on earth we would be better off going onto solar power. We do use solar for lighting inside and outside for security reasons.NOT to attempt to try to save money. Simply because it wont.
If your power bill is up to p10,000 you are using a huge amount of power About 2,750 kwh ?? What do you have that uses so much power? A quick calc shows you are using about 4kwh every hour of the month?? Conservation is the best path to lower power bills.

Everything there is against you trying to go solar to save money.. There is no buy back if you go grid tied. In fact with the meters they use there if you go grid tied you will be charged for all the power your expensive solar system will generate.. Great huh??? There are no tax incentives and there is likely never to be unless some political people can find some way to corruptly scam the system.
Another thing all solar components there are at least 50 to 100% higher in cost than most other countries and warranties are just about non existent. And you will be told "no stock" if you take something back thats failed for replacement.
There are no qualified people there to do a proper solar install.

There are NO good points.

[hustin]

Araibob I would be over the moon with delight if I was only paying p3.6 a kwh in Leyte we pay p10.4 a kwh and even at that there is no way on earth we would be better off going onto solar power. We do use solar for lighting inside and outside for security reasons.NOT to attempt to try to save money. Simply because it wont.
If your power bill is up to p10,000 you are using a huge amount of power About 2,750 kwh ?? What do you have that uses so much power? A quick calc shows you are using about 4kwh every hour of the month?? Conservation is the best path to lower power bills.

Everything there is against you trying to go solar to save money.. There is no buy back if you go grid tied. In fact with the meters they use there if you go grid tied you will be charged for all the power your expensive solar system will generate.. Great huh??? There are no tax incentives and there is likely never to be unless some political people can find some way to corruptly scam the system.
Another thing all solar components there are at least 50 to 100% higher in cost than most other countries and warranties are just about non existent. And you will be told "no stock" if you take something back thats failed for replacement.
There are no qualified people there to do a proper solar install.

There are NO good points.

wow glad to see there are members here from the phils! though you too are a bit far lol, since i'm from manila.

anyway, i think at 4 p/kwh you got it made. even at double, considering here it's around 12 p/kwh. going off grid is out of the question considering the maintenance costs, replacement costs etc.

Although you two should check out RA 9513, renewable energy act. this covers net metering, tax exemptions etc. believe me these have not been implemented yet, considering it was released in 2008. but they are currently working on it especially the buy back rate.

i don't know with your local POCO if they already implement net metering, but so far here i manila i've had projects wherrein Meralco had changed the old school meter to the new buying and selling meter. maybe you can check with your local POCO.

hope this helps! and goodluck!

[hustin]

The cost to generate power to Davao Light and Power is PHP3.6325 per KWH according to my August bill. There have been rumors that Manila is requiring Davao L&P to double this cost to all of its customers. The hint is Manila wants to divert the cheap power to Luzon, and make Mindanao pay for that diversion.

The issue is my current bill, per month is between PHP7000 and PHP10000, depending...

So, while my cost is not so high (for someone from California), doubling the price would be 'annoying'. So, I am thinking of solar power as a way to reduce the monthly bill from DLP. I wonder how so many Filipinos would be able to afford a doubled electrical bill?

if you don't care for the initial investment and your real target is to reduce the electric bill, grid tie would the way to go. sure there is no buy back rate but there are definitely savings from your electric bill. and considering how much electricity you use, you'd need a lot of space for your panels to accommodate almost 3,000kwhr (based on the figures you have provided)

[AraiBob]

5 years living in Philippines does not make me an expert...

Araibob I would be over the moon with delight if I was only paying p3.6 a kwh in Leyte we pay p10.4 a kwh and even at that there is no way on earth we would be better off going onto solar power. We do use solar for lighting inside and outside for security reasons.NOT to attempt to try to save money. Simply because it wont.
If your power bill is up to p10,000 you are using a huge amount of power About 2,750 kwh ?? What do you have that uses so much power? A quick calc shows you are using about 4kwh every hour of the month?? Conservation is the best path to lower power bills.

Everything there is against you trying to go solar to save money.. There is no buy back if you go grid tied. In fact with the meters they use there if you go grid tied you will be charged for all the power your expensive solar system will generate.. Great huh??? There are no tax incentives and there is likely never to be unless some political people can find some way to corruptly scam the system.
Another thing all solar components there are at least 50 to 100% higher in cost than most other countries and warranties are just about non existent. And you will be told "no stock" if you take something back thats failed for replacement.
There are no qualified people there to do a proper solar install.

There are NO good points.

Sunny Solar, The price of P3.625/kwh is on the bill, however the total bill is just over double that value, because of other charges: vat, taxes, and other made up stuff. Actual usage for month ending Aug 15th was 1259 kWh. or 41.97 kWh per day, divided by 24 equals 1.74875 kW each hour, as an average.

If that seems like a lot, so sorry for that. I have one air-con that runs 24 hrs a day, where I have my computer. A half-horsepower Carrier window type air-con. I have a ref and a freezer. and other stuff that runs 24 hrs a day.

I have lived here for 5 years, and I am familiar with 'not in stock' or 'not available'. Often, if I keep looking I will find it, in the very store I am told what I am looking for is not to be found. Citi Hardware is the worst for this.

I have exchanged emails with two solar installation companies, and both note there are no 'grid tie' policies, which means if I ask, I will get odd looks. They note there are no incentives to use solar from the govt. And the import tax on any electronics is 100%. unless you can get the things via balikbayan box.

Often I cannot find what I want in Davao Stores, so I take a trip to Manila, only to be 'lost' and while i am pretty certain what I am looking for is somewhere in Manila, I don't know where to go. After 3 trips like that, I finally gave up looking.

As for 'nobody qualified', that applies to ALL construction I have seen. I grew up in construction, and the last I worked construction, for my father, was in 1968. Yet when I arrived in 2007, it became apparent I knew more about construction than the 'workers' here. I did not get ripped off, like some of the stories I heard, because two of the workers were relatives and they kept a close eye on supplies. But I did have too many 'reworks'.

My house is ok now, and I don't have any complaints. I fixed a few things over the 5 years I have been in the house, but nothing major. all minor irritations. I was looking for a way to reduce the daily expenses, without losing 'comforts'.

Best Regards, AraiBob

[AraiBob]

Online research did not really help...

if you don't care for the initial investment and your real target is to reduce the electric bill, grid tie would the way to go. sure there is no buy back rate but there are definitely savings from your electric bill. and considering how much electricity you use, you'd need a lot of space for your panels to accommodate almost 3,000kwhr (based on the figures you have provided)

How did you arrive at the 3kW figure? I looked online for computations based on my electric bill, and found not a one. I did 'fake' some values on a few, where I could. for example, they would ask about refrigerator, and other things, and I would total my usage from the last billing. From that I got a figure closer to 10kW. On the web, I found some prices. See the attached pdf capture done yesterday from a company in the US.

[AraiBob]

glad to hear of legislation for Grid Tie

wow glad to see there are members here from the phils! though you too are a bit far lol, since i'm from manila.

anyway, i think at 4 p/kwh you got it made. even at double, considering here it's around 12 p/kwh. going off grid is out of the question considering the maintenance costs, replacement costs etc.

Although you two should check out RA 9513, renewable energy act. this covers net metering, tax exemptions etc. believe me these have not been implemented yet, considering it was released in 2008. but they are currently working on it especially the buy back rate.

i don't know with your local POCO if they already implement net metering, but so far here i manila i've had projects wherrein Meralco had changed the old school meter to the new buying and selling meter. maybe you can check with your local POCO.

hope this helps! and goodluck!

Hmmm, Glad to hear of the legislation. How long before implementated? As long as the 'vested interests' in Philippines make money from oil, gas, and coal imports they will make it difficult for solar power. I can take the time to go to my power company and ask. No harm in asking?

[Sunny Solar]

Araibob I would be looking to get rid of the window AC and install a 3 outlet split system. But make sure its an inverter system. They really do use a lot less power than the old types do. And most window AC units are not very efficient. Split systems are the only way to go. Not to be confused with ducted systems.

As I already said there is never going to be net metering or tax incentives until the lawmakers that implement that have found a way to make huge amounts of money out of it themselves. Republic Corrupt fact 1074a..

[Sunking]

Actual usage for month ending Aug 15th was 1259 kWh. or 41.97 kWh per day,

OK Bob you said you were an annalist, so analyze this.

To generate 42 Kwh of usable off-grid battery power in your location in August will take.

Solar Panel Wattage = 10,500 watts or $21,000 in the USA USD
Battery Capacity = 200 Kwh = $42,000 and 12,000 pounds of toxic lead and acid.
MPPT Charge Controller = 2 80 Amp units @ $800 per unit = $1600
Industrial 6 Kw TSW Inverter = $5000
Spill containment, racks, materials, hardware, wiring, and distribution $10,000
Labor = Not Included.

Rough Equipment Estimate = $80,000 USD in the USA. In Phil likely twice or more.

Now here is the fun part to analyze. You get to replace those $42,000 batteries every 5 to 7 years at even higher cost. How does that compete, sorry I mean how does that compute in your analysis.

[hustin]

How did you arrive at the 3kW figure? I looked online for computations based on my electric bill, and found not a one. I did 'fake' some values on a few, where I could. for example, they would ask about refrigerator, and other things, and I would total my usage from the last billing. From that I got a figure closer to 10kW. On the web, I found some prices. See the attached pdf capture done yesterday from a company in the US.

Hi Bob! sorry for the misunderstanding as i am not familiar with davao rates. got the 3,000kwh from :assuming max bill is 10,000pesos / 3.6325P/kwhr = 2,7++kwh (i just rounded it up to 3k). thought the P/kwhr is the effective rate (included taxes generation charges etc.).

obviously those people you have been talking to haven't done their research. shoot me an email if you wanna know more about the renewble energy programs here in the phils.

[hustin]

As I already said there is never going to be net metering or tax incentives until the lawmakers that implement that have found a way to make huge amounts of money out of it themselves. Republic Corrupt fact 1074a..

Cheers to that! but it's also possible to not have a system that generates more than what you consume. if you're looking to turn it into a business (selling electricity) then there are no incentives as of now. but if you're just looking to save on electricity bills, then the selling part should be irrelevant. as i said, based on actual experience the POCO here (meralco) had already changed my meter to the one with buying / selling (yes, there is no buying rate yet, but at least they recognize whatever electricity you generate and throw back at them, cutting down your bills more). wouldn't hurt to ask your local POCOs if they'd do the same

Lemme know when you guys are in Manila, I'd be more than happy to meet and discuss this! there are actually very few people in Manila who have the same interests