Solar shopper - Newb in San Clemente CA 92673

[Chuck92673]

First post - number one, I want to thank you all for sharing your experiences and advice. I have found it invaluable !

I have learned a lot in roughly the past few weeks... Have yet to get have an installer come out but after reading a ton of posts here, reviews on SolarReviews, Yelp, Google, and reading up on the various solar technology sites like SPI, PVWatts, SolarWorld et al I am no longer overwhelmed or absolutely clueless... Will be purchasing a system for cash, leases don't seem to cut it.

I really want to start interacting and getting some advice on installers, technology. Am using around 850kWh per month 10K/yr in a 2K sq ft home, south east facing roof (160 degrees), big enough to handle the 6K or so watt system that I figure I'll need (maybe only need 5ish watts not sure?). Have read quite a few threads but there is whole lot here. Am with SDGE here in San Clemente 92673, about the priciest electric utility in the US... Not using as much AC as I’d like cause I am cheap, so expect usage will likely increase some after the install !

I am hoping to choose a company that has been in business 10+ yrs, offers 20+ year warranties on the entire system and 20 –25 yr warranties on the equipment. Most seem to offer 10 yr warranties on the install but some do offer 25 yr on the panels and even inverters (but maybe not for string inverters). If you think the warranty isn't all that important would love to hear your thoughts...

Believe there are maybe a handful of companies locally that seem to do that. I am thinking a good goal would be $3.15-$3.50 a watt installed pre the 30% tax rebate with Tier 1 solar technology co's (e.g., LG, SolarWorld) - that may be doable and yield a payback somewhere around 5-5.5 years and an IRR of around 20% at current pricing (subject of course to a lower potential return if they go to a 2 tier pricing system). Likely I will need to haggle over the cost a 200A panel as mine is a 125 amp.

Anyone with a great installer - Alisobob / Subdriver / Buellwinkle / Sensij ? – missed many others as I have read only 500 or so posts I know, but would love to hear your input and get a PM if possible on recommended installers.

Thanks !

Chuck

[J.P.M.]

Knowledge is power. Nicely done so far. How about an energy audit and roof inspec./maint. ? Other than that, IMO, a good example of how to do things correctly. Remember - you don't get what you deserve, you get what you negotiate.

Good luck.

[Chuck92673]

Thanks J.P.M.

Will look in the energy audit and will call SDGE to get their advice and bring it up with installers I interview. Have switched over most lighting to LED and we are already trying to conserve by turning off unnecessary computers, home audio systems, pads, unneeded charging units, LED tvs/ appliances etc ; also looking in to an AC unit with a higher SEER rating. Some of these changes are recent /ongoing and have seemed to have an impact on our last bill, but won't know for sure for a few more months when I have more months to compare to the prior year... AC will likely have a decent sized impact.

C

[Chuck92673]

Thanks AlisoBob

Thanks Alisobob for the quick PM. I cannot PM back due to not having enough posts, you know the drill.
I'll call them at spme point when I am a bit more ready and see if I can schedule an on site.

[J.P.M.]

Will look in the energy audit and will call SDGE to get their advice and bring it up with installers I interview. Have switched over most lighting to LED and we are already trying to conserve by turning off unnecessary computers, home audio systems, pads, unneeded charging units, LED tvs/ appliances etc ; also looking in to an AC unit with a higher SEER rating. Some of these changes are recent /ongoing and have seemed to have an impact on our last bill, but won't know for sure for a few more months when I have more months to compare to the prior year... AC will likely have a decent sized impact.

C

You're welcome. I'd suggest you figure the A/C induced bill reduction into your plans and consider reduction of the PV size. Also know, if not already aware that many A/C systems, like solar electricity, are oversized by vendors. Never a good idea, particularly with cooling equipment for a lot of reasons.

[Alisobob]

I'll call them at some point when I am a bit more ready....

A/C is a big part of their business.

Call the main office, and ask for Jason.

He's enlightened me on my A/C issues... pretty smart fella'.

[Chuck92673]

Sensij

Thanks for the reply Sensij,

If you could forward me the actual installers contact info as well that would be awesome.

I am thinking of getting some decent panels (certainly not Sunpower!) and likely going with SolarEdge.
I am still working on lowering our ongoing elec use and have made some pretty good progesss.
I bought a Kill a Watt and am completing an entire inventory of our usage- it is eye opening.
Once I can post I will share the spreadsheet with other for use as a template...

Chuck

[russ]

Most homes leak hot/cold air like a sieve - sealing can be a big help

[J.P.M.]

Most homes leak hot/cold air like a sieve - sealing can be a big help

+1. Just don't seal the kit./bath vent fans.

[Chuck92673]

seal leaks

Would not have even given that a thought. San Clemente has the most moderate climate I can think of,
but as I dig deeper, seems in the winter it would help a little. However this past winder was so mild we ddin't even use our heater
(we are cheap, lol) but maybe it would be even more benefifical in the summer. I work from home and think I used the AC
daily for roughly 3 mos in 2014 as it was freaky hot for SC.

Goods idea for sure, will check into that too.

Thanks !

C

Most homes leak hot/cold air like a sieve - sealing can be a big help

[russ]

windows, doors, electrical receptacles, built in lamps, attic fans, attic doors, plumbing connections etc

[logdin]

windows, doors, electrical receptacles, built in lamps, attic fans, attic doors, plumbing connections etc

While you're looking for leaks, don't forget to look at your duct work. A relatively inexpensive static pressure test might reveal some big leaks. After I had my PV system installed, I got an offer to do the duct testing. Turned out I was heating and cooling my attic. 56% loss. Thats big with AC. Ducting was 35 years old and had split in several areas.

Spent $1000 on reducting. Huge rewards. House now stays cold with AC only running a fraction of the time. I sized my PV system to run AC as often as needed with the leaks. Now, I could have gone 20% smaller. Guess I'll get an EV to use the excess generation.

[J.P.M.]

While you're looking for leaks, don't forget to look at your duct work. A relatively inexpensive static pressure test might reveal some big leaks. After I had my PV system installed, I got an offer to do the duct testing. Turned out I was heating and cooling my attic. 56% loss. Thats big with AC. Ducting was 35 years old and had split in several areas.

Spent $1000 on reducting. Huge rewards. House now stays cold with AC only running a fraction of the time. I sized my PV system to run AC as often as needed with the leaks. Now, I could have gone 20% smaller. Guess I'll get an EV to use the excess generation.

Unless the ductwork runs outside of the conditioned space - say through an unheated/cooled attic, basement, crawlspace, and particularly through stud spaces, etc., - the actual heat gains/losses will be to the conditioned space. If any ducting is through unconditioned areas, and that ducting is serviced/checked/sealed, it may be safe to assume there is not much more than the usual loss. 35 yr. old ducting probably wasn't that tight to begin with. Leaks inside the conditioned space may mean the ducting system will not balance out temps as well through the dwelling with warm/cool spots perhaps being more noticeable, and the system will be slightly less efficient as a result of less conditioned air getting to where it was intended, but such losses as the 56% # probably relate to air vol. and not heat. Even well designed an sealed systems will probably lose 10-20% unless some real attention to detail is taken. I resealed an existing forced air system many years ago and try as I might, I'd guess, I couldn't get the air leakage below about 10%, from an est. 30% initial. I believe that was one of the first applications in the area I lived at the time of pressurizing an HVAC system and finding leaks with smoke.

Still, the point about attention to duct sealing and losses is a good one that I forgot to mention, particularly with older systems.

[logdin]

Well it was in the attic. Not between the walls. New ducting got us down to 12% volume loss. So in my case (and i would imagine others that have 30+ year old dwellings with ducting distributed from the attic), its worth checking. The crap that was taken out was plastic wrapped (we're talking garbage bag plastic) with 1/2" fiberglass insulation wrapped around very widely spaced wire. It was split in many places and could easily be seen with an infrared imaging system, then felt by hand. And yes, you are correct; volume of air being pushed, not heat/cooling. Less than half was making it to the registers. The other half was in the attic, so yes, I was heating and cooling the attic more than I was the living spaces of the house.

[Chuck92673]

Kind of interesting - pricing info I was able to get

Got pricing for a complete system including installation from an unnamed website that sells retail systems and
has an option to connect you with an installer at a fixed price based on system size and roof type.

It's good to know this lines up so well with other recent SoCal projects mentioned here on these boards.
I am still going to engage with probably a handful of local supplier/installers and am planning to ask them for
separate materials, installation cost for a specific system similar to that below along with 200 amp panel cost and installation.

Of course will consider any relevant recommendations they have on hardware components or the installation itself.
s an aside, I am pretty happy that I figured out how the system would fit on the roof
to eliminate almost all shading issues.

Here is the quote I rec'd :
CanadianSolar 22 280 watt panels
Solar Edge 22 opt's; SE 6000

DC Watts 6,160
Hardware $11,200 $1.82
Install $8,000 $1.30
Total cost $19,200 $3.12
Tax $1,344 7%
Total w/tax $20,544 $3.34
Shipping $699
Total incl tax/ship $21,243 $3.45
200A Panel $1,500
Before tax credit $ $22,743 $3.69
Fed tax credit 70%
Net Cost $15,920 $2.58

Using a .7% system degradation and 3% inflation and the SDGE proposed new tiering, I get an IRR north of 20%,
but that doesn't include inverter replacement or any repairs outside of the warranty.