solar panels already for retail sale at under a dollar

[russ]

Being a moderator has nothing to do with being foolish - or trying to take advantage of the sites others maintain.

A practical viewpoint with two feet on the ground is normally the best path.

Where solar can be cost effective today using the subsidies and incentives one should take advantage. Areas with high FITs also fit this category though in effect, the poor are helping those better to pay for their systems.

I have never seen a study on it but a great many and probably a majority of homes are not located to take advantage of solar. In those cases it is definitely better to participate in a coop or commercial venture.

Mike has a different situation - for the charge the utility wanted to provide a grid connection to his property he was able to install and off grid setup. - good plan on his part.

Solar needs to pass several more hurdles before it is widely accepted 1) cost - panel cost is coming down but everything else stays the same or increases,
2) storage - to get past the intermittent nature of solar/wind big improvements in batteries are needed but are not close 3) thin film needs to get some track record - to date it is unproven, 4) installation cost is high as every installation is custom, 5) many others

Solar thermal is in a much better position - both for hot water and warm air space heating. Suppliers are a bit greedy though and keeping costs so high that a dedicated heat pump water heater is still the cheaper option in most locations.

I have solar thermal hot water and love it. Turned off the backup power late March and will turn on again in November as is required. I plan to install warm air as is possible.

[muskrat]

life cycle cost effect solar

Even solar won't give you free energy forever! Everything wears out even solar panels.The very long lifespan of most solar panels can make them a viable option now if the cost of capital is not to great.I would like to see enough of our energy needs to be supplied by renewable sources so that when the price of oil does start to truly go through the roof we don't get a domino effect of collapsing industries which make it impossible to create a new source of energy.Subsidizing solar and wind now may be like the difference between wadding through a flood up to your knees and trying to swim through one that is over your head. If we could depend on a slow gradual rise in the cost of fossil fuel we would not have to worry about getting ahead of the energy curve.When fossil fuel got to expensive the alternatives would become obvious.Oil drilling and refining are very capital intensive industries however and an economic depression caused by high energy cost(perhaps including the one we are experiencing now) may make it impossible to invested billions in new oil drilling to recover only marginally useful deposits.Oil production could drop rapidly over a period of twenty years.This would give us little time to build the factories needed to switch to renewable forms of energy.Slow changes in cost of energy will cause economic evolution.Rapid changes may cause economic extinction and possibly the loss of a large part of the human population. If a significant fraction of our energy needs are fulfilled by renewable energy before they are strictly speaking the cheapest source of energy any oil price spike will do less damage.

[muskrat]

comunity solar

Writing national building code to help standardize solar installation might help with the problem of every installation being custom.The main problem with "community" solar projects is the waste of ground space.If these installations are over parking lots or other wasted space then more power to them. Since installation is now becoming a major part of the cost of solar, standardization and competition are needed to bring those cost down.A simple thing like variations in interconnecting plugs can raise cost substantially as it can force consumers to buy highly overpriced "connecting" cables from the manufacturer or a limited number of producers.On items as simple as connectors we need standardization and mass production not innovation.

[muskrat]

are any laminates ul approved?

xxxx.com has a bunch of "laminates" for under a dollar a watt. Has anyone done a grid tie system using "laminates" (frame-less panels)and gotten electric company buy in? It seems to me that building treated lumber frames and using laminates might eliminate the expense of tying the panels together with a redundant ground to the frames since the frames would be non conducting.There would of course be the additional problems of handling frame-less glass panels. I thought I might build 2x6 and 2x4 frames bolted to the roof and route out a grove to set the panels in then seal them with silicone rubber.

[muskrat]

59 cents

@Xulander - The prices could fall to zero as well - if the world came to an end. Sure we will see grid parity - not for the next ten years for sure and probably a lot longer.

From your post If the manufacturers are hurting, its probably because of the political a$$holes in alternative energy forums chasing off prospective customers!

İf you spent a little time looking around and did a bit of research you might have an idea of what the realities are. With your present knowledge you are just parroting something you have seen elsewhere without understanding what it means.

The silicon is only one part of the overall system.

container price of ul certified panels now 59 cents per watt fob California as of 11/27/2013

so where are you getting your numbers from?

[GridGrants]

Check the date...

container price of ul certified panels now 59 cents per watt fob California as of 11/27/2013

so where are you getting your numbers from?

You responded to an old post. Yes, there are some bargains out there now. Just as important (actually MORE important) is the warranty, who will be honoring the warranty etc. Some of the bargain panels are from defunct or soon to be defunct companies. Even without a warranty, these .59 to .69 per watt panels can be a bargain if you trust the supplier to get them to you in initial working condition.

It is unrealistic for a homeowner to expect their installer to be receiving their panels at this price, but nevertheless interesting to see what types of distressed sales opportunities are out there. The installer is guaranteeing THE SYSTEM and not just the panels, so they must be more cautious in the brands they choose to install and need to know they have recourse if one fails.

[inetdog]

Wow! And you are the moderator?

That sounded very moderate indeed compared to the way some others would express it.
I just could not pass that up, since I was not around for the original post.

[russ]

That sounded very moderate indeed compared to the way some others would express it.
I just could not pass that up, since I was not around for the original post.

That guy (Jonathan) was a total BS artist trying to sell his services.