Changes are coming Pilgrims

[solar pete]

Hi All,

As many will be aware we are going to upgrade Solar Panel Talk to the latest version of the forum software and go to a new server.

It will look a little different and have some new functionality. We are also going to change the way we deal with talking about installers, at the moment its dysfunctional. It has created this underground (via PM) network of referral fee hunters who want you to buy a system from their installer (or themselves, some installers are here but they don't disclose they are the actual installer) because they can make between $250 and $1,000 per shot. So while good old SolarReviews are paying the bills others here are actually making money and contribute nothing.

This is all about to change, as of now it is ok to mention an installer as long as it is a link to their page on www.solarreviews.com, for example i just got a quote from http://www.solarreviews.com/installe...,inc.-reviews/ and I thought they were cool. If they don't have have a listing on SolarReviews.com they had better get one, its free to be listed but it costs to subscribe to get extra tools to deal with potential customers.

PM's are going to be harder to get, we will raise the rate of posts that you need to be able to access PM's in fact I have lobbied to have them turned off altogether but others are against this so the consensus seems to be make it available to the true regulars, not the fly by night referral seekers.

Now is the time for your input, as none of the above is set in stone just yet, we still have time to change things and all feed back is welcomed. I have spoken to several business's about sponsorship, on the new version we will embed our calculator widgets so there will be a prime front page slot up for advertising, first in best dressed.

Cheers All

[PNjunction]

I thought I heard John Wayne there for a moment.

I'm cool with no PM's, other than say administrative, since nobody benefits in a public forum with private messages. Too many pm's, and all the site becomes is an email server.

I hope they keep the demographic here in mind - that is, those that can read and communicate with more than 140 characters. Also, designing for cellphone/tablet use is fine, BUT if the "classic" site becomes a mess with endless mobile-app splash ads, ridiculous thumbs-up, I "like", I "heart this" and other things not conducive to those who know how to read, it can become a big distraction, and encourage the existing demographic to go elsewhere.

I'm not a luddite, but I just don't know how SK would take it if all we did was exchange emoji's.

[solar pete]

I thought I heard John Wayne there for a moment.

I'm cool with no PM's, other than say administrative, since nobody benefits in a public forum with private messages. Too many pm's, and all the site becomes is an email server.

I hope they keep the demographic here in mind - that is, those that can read and communicate with more than 140 characters. Also, designing for cellphone/tablet use is fine, BUT if the "classic" site becomes a mess with endless mobile-app splash ads, ridiculous thumbs-up, I "like", I "heart this" and other things not conducive to those who know how to read, it can become a big distraction, and encourage the existing demographic to go elsewhere.

I'm not a luddite, but I just don't know how SK would take it if all we did was exchange emoji's.

Thanks for the feed back PNj, a lot more testing to do yet, we have embedded the links to the calculator and solarreviews so it should actually look like less advertising, we have only got one slot open for advertisers to grab.

I will send you a login once we have it to where we think it needs to be so you can have a look, cheers

[Bala]

Thanks for the feed back PNj, a lot more testing to do yet, we have embedded the links to the calculator and solarreviews so it should actually look like less advertising, we have only got one slot open for advertisers to grab.

I will send you a login once we have it to where we think it needs to be so you can have a look, cheers

I am forums that are a30 days or 50 posts for pms and for sale or wanted adds. Pms are ok imo

[vudu]

I would consider attaching the solar calculator tools to a person's profile. I see many newbie questions along the lines of "how many panels do I need" - at which point, often, great posters like J.P.M come along and helpfully point them in the right direction - repeatedly. You might be able to get a lot of the same old questions out of the way if you funnel folks through a questionnaire - that amounts to a "solar profile" describing what they have/want (that is easily editable/sharable/portable).

Could also be handy for installers. Maybe an installer can be a specific type of (paid?) user with additional privileges and responsibilities.

I'm not sure about the PM stuff or how that works though I've seen remnants of them in the threads. Perhaps having identified installers would help in that matter.

I'm not sure what forum software you plan to use but Discourse has a cool stack and a lot of energy behind it.

http://www.discourse.org/

It is open source, easy to use and easy to install. It has a very modern software stack.

Here is an example. http://discuss.emberjs.com/ (ember is the front end framework).


PS: I was a sw dev in my previous life - so every problem can be solved with software. Pardon if this post in not relevant.

[inetdog]

I would consider attaching the solar calculator tools to a person's profile. I see many newbie questions along the lines of "how many panels do I need" - at which point, often, great posters like J.P.M come along and helpfully point them in the right direction - repeatedly. You might be able to get a lot of the same old questions out of the way if you funnel folks through a questionnaire - that amounts to a "solar profile" describing what they have/want (that is easily editable/sharable/portable).

Could also be handy for installers. Maybe an installer can be a specific type of (paid?) user with additional privileges and responsibilities.

I'm not sure about the PM stuff or how that works though I've seen remnants of them in the threads. Perhaps having identified installers would help in that matter.

I'm not sure what forum software you plan to use but Discourse has a cool stack and a lot of energy behind it.

http://www.discourse.org/

It is open source, easy to use and easy to install. It has a very modern software stack.

Here is an example. http://discuss.emberjs.com/ (ember is the front end framework).


PS: I was a sw dev in my previous life - so every problem can be solved with software. Pardon if this post in not relevant.

It is relevant, but the Forum has a long history in the form of a vBulletin format database, so any change would have to allow that information to be carried into the new Forum incarnation.

[solar pete]

I am forums that are a30 days or 50 posts for pms and for sale or wanted adds. Pms are ok imo

Thanks for the feed back, had not thought about a day limit on the PM's, cheers.

[solar pete]

I would consider attaching the solar calculator tools to a person's profile. I see many newbie questions along the lines of "how many panels do I need" - at which point, often, great posters like J.P.M come along and helpfully point them in the right direction - repeatedly. You might be able to get a lot of the same old questions out of the way if you funnel folks through a questionnaire - that amounts to a "solar profile" describing what they have/want (that is easily editable/sharable/portable).

Could also be handy for installers. Maybe an installer can be a specific type of (paid?) user with additional privileges and responsibilities.

I'm not sure about the PM stuff or how that works though I've seen remnants of them in the threads. Perhaps having identified installers would help in that matter.

I'm not sure what forum software you plan to use but Discourse has a cool stack and a lot of energy behind it.

http://www.discourse.org/

It is open source, easy to use and easy to install. It has a very modern software stack.

Here is an example. http://discuss.emberjs.com/ (ember is the front end framework).


PS: I was a sw dev in my previous life - so every problem can be solved with software. Pardon if this post in not relevant.

Thanks for the reply vudu, we are going to the latest version of vbulletin, fingers crossed it will be all good, cheers.

[J.P.M.]

1.) While I'm not advocating getting rid of PM's, unless human nature is about to change in a rather profound way, eliminating PM's is probably the only sure fire way of addressing the perceived dilemma of the Judas referral bandits stealing perceived revenue. To expect less of folks is, IMO only, being naive to the point of absurdity. It's just the way it is. Also, raising The # of posts or time as a member required for PM privileges does nothing to prevent someone from selling out and going over to the Dark Side at some point and turning into a referral whore.

2.) As for explaining the same things on a regular basis: Yea - it's a PITA and a patience stretcher. However, I try to remember no one has my feet nailed to the floor around here. Last time I checked, participation and level of involvement are voluntary. A lot of whining about answering the same questions over/over seems to be bitching about a self inflicted problem. Can't take the heat - get out of the kitchen.

3.) Still, the perception that a lot of folks come here with a sense of entitlement and treat a lot of knowledgeable and experienced posters as chattel and sources of free information is hard to shake off at times and doesn't help attitudes. Even more so when the answers given are contrary to preconceived ideas (with some of some of those preconceptions being ignorant and/or dangerous) and cause someone to get their knickers in a knot for any # of reasons, and the whole post degenerates into a juvenile and unprofessional waste.

For consideration: The situation may be partly and hopefully more effectively handled for all by:

- A FAQ section. For example: If/when someone asks whether panel "X" is better than panel "Y", they could be told to "see FAQ 25" for example, with FAQ 25 being a short discussion, or as short as possible, to describe the pros/cons of the current thinking on general panel quality and suitability.
- Newbies might be directed to a FAQ section before posting any questions/comments. Those newbies who ignore that advice could be redirected there as in: "Your salient, insightful, profound and thoughtful question has been asked so often it's a FAQ, see the FAQ's as was suggested when you signed on."
- A rules of the road welcome statement. As in: "Welcome! Be considerate. Read the FAQ's before you post anything. You'll save yourself and everyone else a lot of time."

I appreciate the "stickies", but if they were used, read or were effective, I'd think there would be fewer common questions asked.

A FAQ section is not the solution for every situation/question but a lot of time and keystrokes could be saved. Also, follow on questions/comments would still be possible.

As usual, take what you want of the above. Scrap the rest.

[solar pete]

1.) While I'm not advocating getting rid of PM's, unless human nature is about to change in a rather profound way, eliminating PM's is probably the only sure fire way of addressing the perceived dilemma of the Judas referral bandits stealing perceived revenue. To expect less of folks is, IMO only, being naive to the point of absurdity. It's just the way it is. Also, raising The # of posts or time as a member required for PM privileges does nothing to prevent someone from selling out and going over to the Dark Side at some point and turning into a referral whore.

2.) As for explaining the same things on a regular basis: Yea - it's a PITA and a patience stretcher. However, I try to remember no one has my feet nailed to the floor around here. Last time I checked, participation and level of involvement are voluntary. A lot of whining about answering the same questions over/over seems to be bitching about a self inflicted problem. Can't take the heat - get out of the kitchen.

3.) Still, the perception that a lot of folks come here with a sense of entitlement and treat a lot of knowledgeable and experienced posters as chattel and sources of free information is hard to shake off at times and doesn't help attitudes. Even more so when the answers given are contrary to preconceived ideas (with some of some of those preconceptions being ignorant and/or dangerous) and cause someone to get their knickers in a knot for any # of reasons, and the whole post degenerates into a juvenile and unprofessional waste.

For consideration: The situation may be partly and hopefully more effectively handled for all by:

- A FAQ section. For example: If/when someone asks whether panel "X" is better than panel "Y", they could be told to "see FAQ 25" for example, with FAQ 25 being a short discussion, or as short as possible, to describe the pros/cons of the current thinking on general panel quality and suitability.
- Newbies might be directed to a FAQ section before posting any questions/comments. Those newbies who ignore that advice could be redirected there as in: "Your salient, insightful, profound and thoughtful question has been asked so often it's a FAQ, see the FAQ's as was suggested when you signed on."
- A rules of the road welcome statement. As in: "Welcome! Be considerate. Read the FAQ's before you post anything. You'll save yourself and everyone else a lot of time."

I appreciate the "stickies", but if they were used, read or were effective, I'd think there would be fewer common questions asked.

A FAQ section is not the solution for every situation/question but a lot of time and keystrokes could be saved. Also, follow on questions/comments would still be possible.

As usual, take what you want of the above. Scrap the rest.

Thanks for your usual very considered response J.P.M. We are on the same page re FAQ and it will be in if I win the argument with others who have a slightly different idea as to what the newbies will see. Thanks

[Naptown]

A most excellent post

[J.P.M.]

Thanks for your usual very considered response J.P.M. We are on the same page re FAQ and it will be in if I win the argument with others who have a slightly different idea as to what the newbies will see. Thanks

FWIW:

I'd suspect that the better and useful a FAQ section might be, the worse it would be for long term site revenue generation.

As in: Better/more information -- >> Knowledge is power -->> less ignorance -->> better decisions -->> better and more appropriate designs that are more fit for purpose, cost effective and less wasteful of materials. -->> less revenue for vendors -->> lower advertising budgets.

Also, and more FWIW, I suspect all the bad mouthing I and others have done to Sunpower, SolarCity and other outfits has not got this site many kind words in their home offices , so probably not a lot of advertising revenue from those folks.

[solar pete]

FWIW:

I'd suspect that the better and useful a FAQ section might be, the worse it would be for long term site revenue generation.

As in: Better/more information -- >> Knowledge is power -->> less ignorance -->> better decisions -->> better and more appropriate designs that are more fit for purpose, cost effective and less wasteful of materials. -->> less revenue for vendors -->> lower advertising budgets.

Also, and more FWIW, I suspect all the bad mouthing I and others have done to Sunpower, SolarCity and other outfits has not got this site many kind words in their home offices , so probably not a lot of advertising revenue from those folks.

Again another very good response, you pretty much nailed it. However I think those folks know deep down that this is the forum of few illusions, as someone once said. It gets good numbers, around 100,000 views per month and growing, its all about the numbers

[DanKegel]

I like the idea of shifting the culture so mentions of installers are links to their page in the official directory of installers. The easier you make that, the happier users will be. Needs to be a way to look that up very easily no matter where you are on the forum. I don't even know how to look installers up in the directory, nor should I; it should be as easy as breathing while posting an article, pm, or reply.

Good luck with the update, they can be rough!

[solar pete]

I like the idea of shifting the culture so mentions of installers are links to their page in the official directory of installers. The easier you make that, the happier users will be. Needs to be a way to look that up very easily no matter where you are on the forum. I don't even know how to look installers up in the directory, nor should I; it should be as easy as breathing while posting an article, pm, or reply.

Good luck with the update, they can be rough!

Thanks for the response Dan. We will have embedded links to solarreviews.com but I feel you might be right, it dont mean people will click on it, something for us to consider, thanks.