Should we have a Hybrid Solar section?

[solar pete]

Hi All,

I was thinking we should open a new topic on hybrid-solar, thoughts?

[inetdog]

It would concentrate the discussion well, but I am not sure that new visitors would necessarily know what that topic meant. Others may not know in advance that a hybrid system is what they need.
As long as the Moderators are willing to move a thread from time to time it could work out.
Another suggestion would be to add an RV/mobile subsection in off grid.

[ronquick]

Hybrid System

I am a little surprised there has not been a greater response to your post.
I currently have a 8.5 kw grid tied system but intend to take 4 of my 270 watt panels and spit the output so if the grid goes down I can support a hybrid 2 kw battery back up off grid system. I would like to use 4- 12 volt batteries and a 2000 watt inverter and battery charging system to support my off grid system .
Does this make since?
Any advise would be helpful.

[Sunking]

Ron what size generator do you have? You do know you have to have a generator right?

[ronquick]

Ron what size generator do you have? You do know you have to have a generator right?

I have a small 800 watt generator but would like to support my off grid with existing panels and batteries

[SunEagle]

I have a small 800 watt generator but would like to support my off grid with existing panels and batteries

An off grid system requires a generator to maintain those batteries when the sun doesn't come out for a few days. Batteries are your weakest link for an emergency power backup. You need a guaranteed power source and battery charger or they will not live long.

Also forget using 12volt batteries and any type of parallel wiring. Build your system using lower voltage (2, 4 or 6v) high Ah rated batteries wired in series.

Also you need to match the inverter wattage to the battery Ah rating. A 2000 watt inverter requires a battery system greater than 1500 Ah. Better to go with a 400 watt inverter and a 400 Ah battery.

[ronquick]

An off grid system requires a generator to maintain those batteries when the sun doesn't come out for a few days. Batteries are your weakest link for an emergency power backup. You need a guaranteed power source and battery charger or they will not live long.

Also forget using 12volt batteries and any type of parallel wiring. Build your system using lower voltage (2, 4 or 6v) high Ah rated batteries wired in series.

Also you need to match the inverter wattage to the battery Ah rating. A 2000 watt inverter requires a battery system greater than 1500 Ah. Better to go with a 400 watt inverter and a 400 Ah battery.

Thanks Sun Eagle,
It appears I have no clue to what I need for a small off grid system to operate when the grid goes down. I have a 32 panel 8.5 kw system with grid tied inverters. I have one 270 watt panel feeding dc to my garage with no inverter attached. I have 6- 6volt golf cart batteries available in an emergency, The are CG-2 batteries rated at 75 amps for 107 minutes. I also have 2 - 12 volt 55 amp batteries also available. I am looking to build a system that would power a couple of dvr's, a led television a few led lights and a laptop computer and router. I also have a 800 watt generator. What would be the most efficient and least expensive way to obtain my objective. Most of our outages last no more than 12 hours. My batteries are always fully charged.
TIA

[Sunking]

Thanks Sun Eagle,
It appears I have no clue to what I need for a small off grid system to operate when the grid goes down.

Yes you do, a generator. A hybrid system requires a generator, very expensive hybrid inverter, rewiring your house, and very expensive batteries that need replaced in about 5 years whether you use them or not. You can eliminate all that with a generator.

[SunEagle]

Thanks Sun Eagle,
It appears I have no clue to what I need for a small off grid system to operate when the grid goes down. I have a 32 panel 8.5 kw system with grid tied inverters. I have one 270 watt panel feeding dc to my garage with no inverter attached. I have 6- 6volt golf cart batteries available in an emergency, The are CG-2 batteries rated at 75 amps for 107 minutes. I also have 2 - 12 volt 55 amp batteries also available. I am looking to build a system that would power a couple of dvr's, a led television a few led lights and a laptop computer and router. I also have a 800 watt generator. What would be the most efficient and least expensive way to obtain my objective. Most of our outages last no more than 12 hours. My batteries are always fully charged.
TIA

First off with dvr's, television and laptop make sure you get a Pure Sine Wave inverter. Next it comes down to how many watt hours your loads use in those 12 or 24 hours. Based on that number we can help determine the size of your battery system, panel wattage and charge controller.

I built a small off grid system (~400 panel watts and 200Ah @ 12volt battery system) that can safely deliver about 600 watt hours a day. I spent about $2500 but I purchased the wrong type of panels (12volt), charge controller (PMW) and batteries (12v 50 AH AGM) and could have gotten a better system for about $1500. That is still a lot of money for something that only delivers 0.6kWh a day and have only been used a couple of times for a few hours. I will also still need to replace those batteries in a couple more years. My money would have been better spent on a quite 2000watt inverter style generator.

If you have grid power and may have power outages then a battery system is not the way to go. So I try to steer people away from the batteries unless they have money to burn.

[Mike90250]

If you steal some panels off the GT array, it may fail to meet the minimum start-up voltage of 400VDC. Depends on model of inverter you have, the manual will tell you. Mid-day in summer, panel voltage of hot panels will sag, and may also drop the inverter.

[BMAD]

Ok, what exactly do you consider a Hybrid system. I think my setup may be one with the XW6048 with
sell and off grid capable. Can you define what you mean by hybrid?

Thanks,

Bill in TN

[SunEagle]

Ok, what exactly do you consider a Hybrid system. I think my setup may be one with the XW6048 with
sell and off grid capable. Can you define what you mean by hybrid?

Thanks,

Bill in TN

A Hybrid solar system is one that has an inverter which can connect to the Utility grid and charge a battery system. Your Xantrex XW6048 would be considered a Hybrid inverter.

[BMAD]

A Hybrid solar system is one that has an inverter which can connect to the Utility grid and charge a battery system. Your Xantrex XW6048 would be considered a Hybrid inverter.

Yeah, I think it would be nice to have a section devoted to Hybrid! Yesterday, I went to my buddies house and we changed out
his batteries to 3 banks of Outback RE200's. Nice setup! He has 3kw of panels and the Outback 80 charge controller. His
Inverter is an Outback 4048. He's new and so am I. He has a separate panelboard with all his 120 volt loads. Outback has
something new called Grid - Zero and he is running with that! With 538ah online all his parameters are set but he is not sure
what voltage to set his DOD for - think he wants to limit it to 50% DOD. What should his voltage be? Got any ideas? You
seen this Grid zero? My XW doesnt have it!

Thanks,

Bill in TN

[Mike90250]

the XW-6048 is an hybrid inverter, which requires a solar charge controller to recharge from the sun. If grid power or generator power is available, the AC can also charge batteries. It can backfeed, load shave, or run as stand-alone. But it's internal transfer relay is only rated 60A.

[Sunking]

What bothers me is people do not understand what is going on.

If you want power when the grid is down for any extended length of time requires a generator period. It requires a portion of your panels to run through a charge controller. If it requires a generator why in the hell do they want to spend the big bucks on a hybrid system for such limited power. They don't understand they have to rewire their homes for a small 60 amp Emergency panel. Save yourelf a ton of cash, buy a whole house generator and life goes on with everything like Air Conditioning, hot water, heat, cooking and let your dang neighbors suffer.

Secondly selling power back to the POCO from your batteries is really stupid. Why on earth would you make a product (Kwh) that cost you 60 to 85-cents (battery cost alone), and then sell it for a loss at 10 to 15-cents. People like that should not be allowed to vote.