Should we have a Hybrid Solar section?

[SunEagle]

Well if the grid is not too shabby, the generator won't be necessary.

If the grid is reliable then why go with a battery hybrid system?

Paul, I can understand the need for you to go that way but in most cases wouldn't a generator be less expensive as the power back up then a set of batteries?

I like the idea and believe there is a place for Hybrid systems someday, but until someone designs a low cost energy storage system, the current types of batteries are nothing more than a costly adder for the home owner that has a grid tie pv system.

[paulcheung]

Well if the grid is not too shabby, the generator won't be necessary.

[russ]

This comes back to the basic problem all RE suffers - cost effective storage. At present there is none except large scale hydro and that is not open for individual use.

Without cost effective storage, hybrid systems are a rich man's toy - they make no sense at all from a financial point of view. If one's name is Gaets, Buffett or Ellison then no problem.

Hybrid systems also have zero, zip, nada to do with being green. That are not!

The only system that makes sense for 99% of us with grid available is grid tie.

10,000$ or more of batteries installed and no generator? Come on Pete!

[J.P.M.]

Hi All,

Really like this thread, I like the idea of a hybrid-solar section so I think I will knock one up, any and all opinions are greatly appreciated.

I think we need to start with a bit of a definition, that will probably evolve over time.

My brother is currently thinking about a hybrid system he is going to install at his house and we have been looking at various batteries and inverter combo's. I will get the details on line when they are more together, some input would be awesome.

We are looking to do a 30kW hybrid system that will essentially be 3 seperate 10kW systems as we want to try out 3 different battery's and inverter setups, so we can get our own numbers. The battery bunker has been built and some framework for about 80 panels has been put up, I'll get some photo's when I go up there next.

P.S I work for the same company that runs solar panel talk and solarreviews.com (this seems to make some people happier)

P.Sx2 Why do you need a genny to set up a hybrid system, total bs, it all depends on what your objectives for the system are, surely.

On P.S 1: Some people (maybe besides me) might think disclosure of skin in the game is the right thing to do, but what leads you to think that some people can be made happier because you work for the same company that runs Solar Panel Talk and Solarreviews.com ?

On P.S. 2: If, as you seem to be saying, having a generator in a hybrid system depends on objectives, then it sounds like you're implying that it's OK at least some of the time. If that's correct, how can it then also be "total" bs ?

[SunEagle]

Hi All,

Really like this thread, I like the idea of a hybrid-solar section so I think I will knock one up, any and all opinions are greatly appreciated.

I think we need to start with a bit of a definition, that will probably evolve over time.

My brother is currently thinking about a hybrid system he is going to install at his house and we have been looking at various batteries and inverter combo's. I will get the details on line when they are more together, some input would be awesome.

We are looking to do a 30kW hybrid system that will essentially be 3 seperate 10kW systems as we want to try out 3 different battery's and inverter setups, so we can get our own numbers. The battery bunker has been built and some framework for about 80 panels has been put up, I'll get some photo's when I go up there next.

P.S I work for the same company that runs solar panel talk and solarreviews.com (this seems to make some people happier)

P.Sx2 Why do you need a genny to set up a hybrid system, total bs, it all depends on what your objectives for the system are, surely.

You may feel that a gen set is not needed for a solar battery system but I wouldn't call wanting one BS.

While you might not have extended days without sun where you live most of the US can experience no solar for days and with major weather issues also no grid power. So unless you have some other way to recharge the batteries a gen set is not only good insurance but has the ability to provide power for loads that might exceed a small battery bank. So IMO not BS.

[Sunking]

P.Sx2 Why do you need a genny to set up a hybrid system, total bs,

As you are connected to the grid (thats right isnt it?) you don't need to design for worst case scenarios, the grid is also your battery. So all you need to do is get a solar system, a largish one from the amount of kilowatt hours you use then determine how many usable kilowatt hours you want to be able to access every night from your batteries, if you exceed that number you simply switch back to the grid. In the event of a black out you will be able to access the amount of kilowatt hours you have allowed for then you will need to turn on the generator if the grids not back up.

So which is it Pete? You are talking out both sides of your mouth. But I get it as you have admitted to be firmly vested in solar trying to sell people stuff.

[Sunking]

It is just human mentalty, they know what is going on. just that they believe since they bought the panels and the sun is shinnng, they should have power, they hate to see the panels is there and they don't produce anything.

That would be Grid Tied with a Emergency whole house generator.

[solar pete]

Hi All,

Really like this thread, I like the idea of a hybrid-solar section so I think I will knock one up, any and all opinions are greatly appreciated.

I think we need to start with a bit of a definition, that will probably evolve over time.

My brother is currently thinking about a hybrid system he is going to install at his house and we have been looking at various batteries and inverter combo's. I will get the details on line when they are more together, some input would be awesome.

We are looking to do a 30kW hybrid system that will essentially be 3 seperate 10kW systems as we want to try out 3 different battery's and inverter setups, so we can get our own numbers. The battery bunker has been built and some framework for about 80 panels has been put up, I'll get some photo's when I go up there next.

P.S I work for the same company that runs solar panel talk and solarreviews.com (this seems to make some people happier)

P.Sx2 Why do you need a genny to set up a hybrid system, total bs, it all depends on what your objectives for the system are, surely.

[paulcheung]

What bothers me is people do not understand what is going on.

If you want power when the grid is down for any extended length of time requires a generator period. It requires a portion of your panels to run through a charge controller. If it requires a generator why in the hell do they want to spend the big bucks on a hybrid system for such limited power. They don't understand they have to rewire their homes for a small 60 amp Emergency panel. Save yourelf a ton of cash, buy a whole house generator and life goes on with everything like Air Conditioning, hot water, heat, cooking and let your dang neighbors suffer.

Secondly selling power back to the POCO from your batteries is really stupid. Why on earth would you make a product (Kwh) that cost you 60 to 85-cents (battery cost alone), and then sell it for a loss at 10 to 15-cents. People like that should not be allowed to vote.

It is just human mentalty, they know what is going on. just that they believe since they bought the panels and the sun is shinnng, they should have power, they hate to see the panels is there and they don't produce anything.

[Mike90250]

The "greenest" scenario is with the SMA secure power option, Grid Tie inverter, you get a 5Kw GT inverter, and if the grid goes down, you have a 1.5Kw outlet you can get power from on sunny days. from 10am -2pm, maybe till 4pm in summer, depending.

No batteries, no lights after dark.

And then you have variations with inverter generators like the honda EU series, 2 days of lights and a fan for 4 gallons of gas. Or an adapter kit for your propane tank.

[SunEagle]

What bothers me is people do not understand what is going on.

If you want power when the grid is down for any extended length of time requires a generator period. It requires a portion of your panels to run through a charge controller. If it requires a generator why in the hell do they want to spend the big bucks on a hybrid system for such limited power. They don't understand they have to rewire their homes for a small 60 amp Emergency panel. Save yourelf a ton of cash, buy a whole house generator and life goes on with everything like Air Conditioning, hot water, heat, cooking and let your dang neighbors suffer.

Secondly selling power back to the POCO from your batteries is really stupid. Why on earth would you make a product (Kwh) that cost you 60 to 85-cents (battery cost alone), and then sell it for a loss at 10 to 15-cents. People like that should not be allowed to vote.

I agree it makes no sense to you and me to use a battery system as an emergency backup power.

Unfortunately there are a lot of people that believe to be "green" they shouldn't use a generator. They also believe that since they have all them solar panels already they should be able to use them to provide power even if the grid goes down.

Both those lines of thinking are flawed because using batteries will never be "Green". And the cost to use those panels when the grid goes down to charge batteries will not save them any money.

[Sunking]

What bothers me is people do not understand what is going on.

If you want power when the grid is down for any extended length of time requires a generator period. It requires a portion of your panels to run through a charge controller. If it requires a generator why in the hell do they want to spend the big bucks on a hybrid system for such limited power. They don't understand they have to rewire their homes for a small 60 amp Emergency panel. Save yourelf a ton of cash, buy a whole house generator and life goes on with everything like Air Conditioning, hot water, heat, cooking and let your dang neighbors suffer.

Secondly selling power back to the POCO from your batteries is really stupid. Why on earth would you make a product (Kwh) that cost you 60 to 85-cents (battery cost alone), and then sell it for a loss at 10 to 15-cents. People like that should not be allowed to vote.

[Mike90250]

the XW-6048 is an hybrid inverter, which requires a solar charge controller to recharge from the sun. If grid power or generator power is available, the AC can also charge batteries. It can backfeed, load shave, or run as stand-alone. But it's internal transfer relay is only rated 60A.

[BMAD]

A Hybrid solar system is one that has an inverter which can connect to the Utility grid and charge a battery system. Your Xantrex XW6048 would be considered a Hybrid inverter.

Yeah, I think it would be nice to have a section devoted to Hybrid! Yesterday, I went to my buddies house and we changed out
his batteries to 3 banks of Outback RE200's. Nice setup! He has 3kw of panels and the Outback 80 charge controller. His
Inverter is an Outback 4048. He's new and so am I. He has a separate panelboard with all his 120 volt loads. Outback has
something new called Grid - Zero and he is running with that! With 538ah online all his parameters are set but he is not sure
what voltage to set his DOD for - think he wants to limit it to 50% DOD. What should his voltage be? Got any ideas? You
seen this Grid zero? My XW doesnt have it!

Thanks,

Bill in TN

[SunEagle]

Ok, what exactly do you consider a Hybrid system. I think my setup may be one with the XW6048 with
sell and off grid capable. Can you define what you mean by hybrid?

Thanks,

Bill in TN

A Hybrid solar system is one that has an inverter which can connect to the Utility grid and charge a battery system. Your Xantrex XW6048 would be considered a Hybrid inverter.