Would you buy if offered Battery Bank?

[foo1bar]

So I am not blowing smoke up anyone's you-know-what when I say some batteries can last over 15 years.

If not cycling very often or very deeply, sure they can.
The 5 year lifespan that is often used is I believe based on daily cycling - so really it's ~1800 cycles.

Is there a market?

No, not much of one.

You're spending $10K for a 3000AH bank (unspecified voltage)

And your reasoning is that it'll let your kids watch TV and play video games if there's an outage.

Wouldn't a whole-house generator for $3K be a better choice? Or a noisier 2kW one for $500 serve the purpose?
I think $7000-$9500 will buy a LOT of fuel.

[einsvanian]

"MPPT charging system" has nothing to do with battery life.

The same batteries that are used for solar backup systems are also used for telecom, industrial DC backup, electric vehicles, house batteries for RV's etc. There is a tremendous demand for them already.

That's fine. It's your money.

You don't need batteries. Most people do need a car. So that's a pretty big difference.

Like I said, do whatever you want with your money. But I would suggest doing a bit more research before you spend a lot of money on something that you don't quite understand yet, and that will cost you far more in the long run.

MPPT does extend the life of a battery bank. It does so many things behind the scenes that it is not worth my time trying to explain it to someone who doesn't understand it.
You need to do your research into MPPT before opening your mouth.

You don't need vehicles either and guess what those vehicles NEED batteries!

It's funny crossing people like you... just by reading something I post you automatically assume you know me and tell me that I quite don't understand. When in all reality its people like you who are the ones that need the understanding.

I am not here to start a war, I am here to do research and see how many people would like to have a battery bank. Okay my post may be a little unorthodox and sounds like a sales pitch which reading it again myself I second most of your statements.

For those who are going to nit pick my postings please keep your rude and disrespectful comments to yourself.

If you are truly negative about this please keep yourself grounded and don't short others out who might benefit from this. PUN intended.

P.S.: IMO equals IN MY OPINION meaning everything I say I believe and I am not forcing you to believe it.

[einsvanian]

Thank you all for your insights.

I've worked in solar array systems for over 16 years now. I've seen battery banks last over 5 years. I replaced several known good batteries at the cost of taxpayers' dollars.

I am not a salesperson but I am a solar owner and own a 600ah battery bank and only paid $4000 for it in 2010. It powered 80% of my home for up to 6 hours. I had to disconnect it due to it being non permitted when I had Solar City install a 5kw solar array and 3600w inverter. I plan to reconnect it soon but I am talking with Solar City about legal issues that might occur; I'll be talking with my local electric company as well. The local building inspector is very interested in the battery bank and would love to see it once I get it reconnected.

I live in Southern California where we get outages a couple times out of the year. When the power goes out at 120 degrees Fahrenheit I'm flipping my battery bank on (it's actually automatic). My toddler gets to watch TV and my other children get to play video games.

I am trying to let people know that battery banks can be cheaper and can last over 15 years. Right now I am building one that is 3000ah which will power my home for the whole night for $10k. I'm using the same type of batteries I used in my 600ah bank for the past 6 years. I don't use lead acid batteries or solar batteries. I will give my battery bank 15 years before I have to replace it.

I've been researching and designing alternative energy sources since I was 11 years old. I know several ways to generate energy and how to store it. Nothing is free! Everything costs something!

I am a certified electrician and electronics technician. I know what makes a battery and how solar panels actually generate energy to include gas generators and alternators. I had to learn: physics, electrical and electronic theories, and several other items to be certified. I love this stuff, I soak it up and continue my research. I worked with a few electrical and electronic engineers and they all said I should become one. I love being a tech not a pencil pusher.

So I am not blowing smoke up anyone's you-know-what when I say some batteries can last over 15 years. Those who are solar installers would agree they've seen batteries last over 5 years. Some would even agree that some batteries could last over 10 years.

Also, I am here to let people know that battery banks are as safe as the little batteries in your TV remote. Battery banks don't sit out in the open they are locked away in a storage box. I built a metal shed in my backyard and used it for my battery bank. I was able to lock it and open it to show others. I did demonstrations for several people. These batteries sat in 140 degrees Fahrenheit temperatures. I test them with a battery interrogator for any abnormalities. I can build legitimate battery banks that start from $600 up to $3.6mil. They are tested, balanced, custom built to each home, and properly installed and I will put my name on it and give out 15 year warranties. If they break which I'm bound to have one or two out of 100 sales I will replace them.

Is there a market?

[peakbagger]

There are a couple of rare customers for grid connected batteries.

The clueless that believe salesman

The lunatic fringe, end of the world as we know it crowd.

Rural folks with real crappy grids (some parts of Vermont might qualify )

Folks with a really attractive incentive to install batteries to offset the significant cost. It happens on occasion where some entity with access to federal state or ratepayer energy efficiency charges will subsidize pilot projects for a few individuals so they can get publicity.

[foo1bar]

With all this said, I am willing to go that extra mile and buy/finance a battery bank coupled with my solar array system.

Are you?

@#$%& NO! No way am I spending money for batteries.

Every con you listed (cost, lifespan, sizing, lifespan/replacing, hazardous material) and the ones you didn't (extra maintenance item, zero-benefit-for-the-cost) are reasons for me not to.
And the benefits you listed are not benefits for me. (I rarely have a power outage. Before I got solar I didn't worry about being "independent" from the grid)

So why would I (or most rational people) buy a battery system when we have POCO grid readily and easily available. It's a huge cost with at best marginal benefit.

They're great for people who need them (ie. no grid available or very unreliable grid.)
But for most of us in the US, it isn't a financially sound idea. (And even ignoring the finances, I'm not thinking it's a good idea to have 100s of pounds of lead-acid batteries in my garage. Nor many kwh of stored energy where a dropped wrench could release it)

[Sunking]

You would be an idiot plain and simple.

What you are saying is: Instead of paying that mean ole POCO $5000 every 5 years, is you prefer to pay the friendly battery dealer $25,000 every 5 years. No to add more misery, you want to float a loan on top of that with Interest pushin git over $30,000 every 5 years. Only a moron would do that.

Are you a moron?

[jflorey2]

C: Batteries will need replacing within 3 years!
IMO: Technology has come along ways since then and now batteries last up to 5 years and then some. With the MPPT charging system it might even push them to 15 years if properly balanced at time of build. I even believe battery banks if sized properly will last up to 20 years!

"MPPT charging system" has nothing to do with battery life.

C: Battery banks cost too much!
IMO: Small demand for battery banks a larger cost to build them. The more demand; the less they will cost.

The same batteries that are used for solar backup systems are also used for telecom, industrial DC backup, electric vehicles, house batteries for RV's etc. There is a tremendous demand for them already.

With all this said, I am willing to go that extra mile and buy/finance a battery bank coupled with my solar array system.

That's fine. It's your money.

Just think! We buy vehicles with 5 year warranties and they cost more than most solar array systems including the battery banks! After the warranty what do most of us do? We buy a new one or repair our old vehicle! What makes batteries different?

You don't need batteries. Most people do need a car. So that's a pretty big difference.

Like I said, do whatever you want with your money. But I would suggest doing a bit more research before you spend a lot of money on something that you don't quite understand yet, and that will cost you far more in the long run.

[SunEagle]

Sounds to me like you are a salesperson trying to sell batteries.

Some of your answers to your questions are way off the mark.

At present ( and probably for the near future) batteries cost way too much and do not have very long lives. Getting 5 years is pretty good. Getting 15 or more is fantasy.

Most people will not live in the same house for 30 or even 20 years so a long term commitment with a solar pv system or contract is not going to reap a big savings.

The cost of power is actually going down for most people and the reliability is getting better so an energy storage system is a very costly way to invest.

I can go on with my thoughts as to why a battery system is illogical for most people in the US (except for Hawaii or maybe some parts of CA).

Call back in 5 years and maybe I will change my mind. Until then batteries is a luxury for the rich and will not pay for themselves over their life except for very very few cases.

[einsvanian]

How many of us would buy/finance battery banks? No matter what costs they are? I mean it has to be a reasonable price. For us little consumers I am willing to pay up to $100 / month for a battery bank. For the bigger consumers I would say $200 / month. What are your comments on this?

Would you pay a little more for electricity to be completely self powered / or own supplier?

My monthly payment before was $40 to $150 /mo now it is $60 to $170 but I am solar. If I had the option to buy a battery bank I would be willing to pay another $100 / month to completely tell Edison no more! With solar I know my monthly bill will not go up for at least 30 years.

With local electric companies they charge taxes, connection fees, emergency service fees, and so forth. I just heard they are trying to increase minimum wage... guess what... do you think those fees will stay the same? Over the past century electric costs doubled if not tripled in some places.

As minimum wage increases; living expenses will surely increase shortly after.

With solar and a 30 year contract you are guaranteed a set price for up to 30 years. If you paid it off sooner you would save even more by being your own supplier!

Adding a battery bank you would be able to consume the energy you produced during the day minimizing or even eliminating the local electric consumption costs.

A battery bank will give you the ability to become more self reliant and independent.

Concerns:
C: Batteries will need replacing within 3 years!
IMO: Technology has come along ways since then and now batteries last up to 5 years and then some. With the MPPT charging system it might even push them to 15 years if properly balanced at time of build. I even believe battery banks if sized properly will last up to 20 years!

C: Battery banks cost too much!
IMO: Small demand for battery banks a larger cost to build them. The more demand; the less they will cost.

C: What size battery bank would I need?
IMO: the bigger the better! The more batteries you have the less stress you put on each battery extending their life expectancy.

C: Who pays for the replacement battery bank when mine goes bad after warranty?
IMO: This question can be answered by Honda in accordance with their Civic Hybrid. We the consumers will pay and maybe if we are willing to vote it in maybe the government might provide incentives to assist in replacement costs. They do for Solar Arrays why not the battery banks too? You can either buy/finance the new battery bank.

With all this said, I am willing to go that extra mile and buy/finance a battery bank coupled with my solar array system.

Just think! We buy vehicles with 5 year warranties and they cost more than most solar array systems including the battery banks! After the warranty what do most of us do? We buy a new one or repair our old vehicle! What makes batteries different?

Vehicles are as dangerous as batteries if handled improperly!

Are you?