Need help, Swimming Pool Pump

[Wazza1152]

Here's an idea for you instead.

Replace the motor on your current pool pump with a 2-speed motor. This can cut your electricity usage in half.

Here's the information I learned when I did mine. My 1-HP Pentair Whisperflo pump uses about 8 amps and pumps about 50-60 GPM. When my motor went out I opted for a dual-speed motor that fits right onto the same pump. At full speed (3450 rpm) I get full flow, about 50-60 GPM. The motor consumes about 8 amps. At 1/2 speed, about 1725 rpm, the pump pumps about 1/2 the water but only consumes 1/8 of the electricity.

3450 RPM about 8 amps 50-60 GPM
1725 RPM about 1 amp 20-30 GPM

I have a BW flowmeter on my pump discharge that verifies this fact. Since you are not pumping as much water as before you will need to run the pump longer, but I found that I only had to increase my daily usage by 3-4 hours, which still cut my power usage by 50% or more.

You will need to upgrade your timer to be compatible with a 2-speed pump. Mine starts on high speed and then switches to low after a pre-set time. You need to start on high-speed to ensure that the pump is fully primed, it may not prime fully on low speed. The other negative is that my skimmers don't work quite as well so I plugged one and simply run off one skimmer now. The flow detector for the SWCG (salt water chlorine generator) is a switch that works off of flow and sometimes they won't work well when the pump is on low speed (it flutters).

Good luck!!

Appreciate your input, great ideas
Thanks

[russ]

This 2 speed motor gives you MOST of the gains from the VFD without the extra cost and electronics.

Some percentage of the gains

[SunEagle]

Just FYI it's not quite "Variable speed". They make another model that will speed up/slow down through all the RPM ranges. I forget what the brand names are for each. I think Pentair calls theirs "Intelliflo". Hayward has their own also. It costs over $1,000 to upgrade and then you have electronics to deal with. It will save more energy, but costs much, much more. This 2 speed motor gives you MOST of the gains from the VFD without the extra cost and electronics.

Thank you for clarifying to the other readers. I have a tendency to lump any type of multi speed motor application into the "variable speed" category.

I have first hand experience with 2 speed dual wound motors, electronic variable frequency ac drives, dc drives and adjustable mechanical drives to change the speed of the "process" even though the motor stays at the same rpm.

The ac variable frequency drives give you a lot of speed adjustments but also can cause the motor to overheat if you run them too slow. That is because the "cooling fan" blades on the motor don't spin fast enough to move air over the motor case.

I am glad to see the "mult speed" application has been incorporated into pool pumps without affecting the process.

Thanks again for the info.

[Texas Wellman]

Just FYI it's not quite "Variable speed". They make another model that will speed up/slow down through all the RPM ranges. I forget what the brand names are for each. I think Pentair calls theirs "Intelliflo". Hayward has their own also. It costs over $1,000 to upgrade and then you have electronics to deal with. It will save more energy, but costs much, much more. This 2 speed motor gives you MOST of the gains from the VFD without the extra cost and electronics.

That is good info on a variable speed pool pump. I guess as long as you can get all foreign particles filtered out of the pool water it doesn't really matter how long it takes. It's not like you need the power of a jacuzzi. Getting the job done and still saving energy without a big investment sounds like a good plan.

[SunEagle]

Thanks. I was skeptical about the energy savings until I figured out how it really works. Since the pump is moving much less water, the energy required to move that water decreases exponentially. The motor should only cost ~$200 USD, add another $200 for the upgraded timer. I installed mine myself. Solar pump for your pool my guess would cost about $5,000 USD and you would still probably have to run it on the grid intermittently.

As a side benefit since the water is moving much slower it filters better. It's better to move your water slower for longer than it is to move a lot of water for a short period of time. Not to mention that the pump is almost silent at low speed and I anticipate the motor lasting much longer.

That is good info on a variable speed pool pump. I guess as long as you can get all foreign particles filtered out of the pool water it doesn't really matter how long it takes. It's not like you need the power of a jacuzzi. Getting the job done and still saving energy without a big investment sounds like a good plan.

[Texas Wellman]

Thanks. I was skeptical about the energy savings until I figured out how it really works. Since the pump is moving much less water, the energy required to move that water decreases exponentially. The motor should only cost ~$200 USD, add another $200 for the upgraded timer. I installed mine myself. Solar pump for your pool my guess would cost about $5,000 USD and you would still probably have to run it on the grid intermittently.

As a side benefit since the water is moving much slower it filters better. It's better to move your water slower for longer than it is to move a lot of water for a short period of time. Not to mention that the pump is almost silent at low speed and I anticipate the motor lasting much longer.

That sort of real life experience, with numbers, is a great contribution to the Forum. Thanks!
There are times when intelligent load reduction is a lot more economical than investing is solar.

[inetdog]

Here's an idea for you instead.
Replace the motor on your current pool pump with a 2-speed motor. This can cut your electricity usage in half.
Here's the information I learned when I did mine...

That sort of real life experience, with numbers, is a great contribution to the Forum. Thanks!
There are times when intelligent load reduction is a lot more economical than investing is solar.

[Texas Wellman]

Here's an idea for you instead.

Replace the motor on your current pool pump with a 2-speed motor. This can cut your electricity usage in half.

Here's the information I learned when I did mine. My 1-HP Pentair Whisperflo pump uses about 8 amps and pumps about 50-60 GPM. When my motor went out I opted for a dual-speed motor that fits right onto the same pump. At full speed (3450 rpm) I get full flow, about 50-60 GPM. The motor consumes about 8 amps. At 1/2 speed, about 1725 rpm, the pump pumps about 1/2 the water but only consumes 1/8 of the electricity.

3450 RPM about 8 amps 50-60 GPM
1725 RPM about 1 amp 20-30 GPM

I have a BW flowmeter on my pump discharge that verifies this fact. Since you are not pumping as much water as before you will need to run the pump longer, but I found that I only had to increase my daily usage by 3-4 hours, which still cut my power usage by 50% or more.

You will need to upgrade your timer to be compatible with a 2-speed pump. Mine starts on high speed and then switches to low after a pre-set time. You need to start on high-speed to ensure that the pump is fully primed, it may not prime fully on low speed. The other negative is that my skimmers don't work quite as well so I plugged one and simply run off one skimmer now. The flow detector for the SWCG (salt water chlorine generator) is a switch that works off of flow and sometimes they won't work well when the pump is on low speed (it flutters).

Good luck!!

[inetdog]

My other concern is his use of those "Grid Tie" inverters. If connects them back into his house electrical circuits he is creating a big chance of an electrical fire. The whole set up looks more like a piece by piece installation that is ripe for failure.

It is really hard to tell from the video, but the way he talks it sounds as if he is just saying that the net power is zero rather than that the pump is not connected to POCO. Or else he has figured out how to deliberately island those GTIs.

[SunEagle]

Yeah I found it hard to believe too, I tried to reach him on youtube but he never responded.

My other concern is his use of those "Grid Tie" inverters. If connects them back into his house electrical circuits he is creating a big chance of an electrical fire. The whole set up looks more like a piece by piece installation that is ripe for failure.

[russ]

There is a guy on youtube running his pool in florida (I believe) on 4 120 watt panels, running a Hayward ecostar pump.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REJSPQDJibc

Like most things on you tube it is a sick joke - mostly blather and questionable 100%

[bahamasolarnoob]

I find it hard to believe this guy is getting enough sunlight to run his pump for the hours he claims. Even with a variable flow rate pump it must slow down to a very low rate when the sun is not fully shining on his panels or he has another power source to keep the pump running.

Yeah I found it hard to believe too, I tried to reach him on youtube but he never responded.

[SunEagle]

There is a guy on youtube running his pool in florida (I believe) on 4 120 watt panels, running a Hayward ecostar pump.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REJSPQDJibc

I find it hard to believe this guy is getting enough sunlight to run his pump for the hours he claims. Even with a variable flow rate pump it must slow down to a very low rate when the sun is not fully shining on his panels or he has another power source to keep the pump running.

[Mike90250]

Pool pumps are often way oversized for the pool. you should be able to research what size pump you NEED, and not what the original installer made the most profit from.

Variable speed AC pumps are likely the most miserly electric consumers. Add a couple of solar panels for a Grid Tie system, and you will likely shave your electric bill some. PV panels cost a lot, so a large install will be a huge expense that will take 10 years or more, to repay from savings.

[russ]

russ

Your are correct except that is a really BIG pool pump at 2hp or 1500watts. I have a pump rated 1hp at 220v which I could never justify running on solar.

I believe our sponsor sells Solar DC water pump kits but I don't know if they are rated for the salt and chlorine.

Both of mine are larger but a few thousand miled awsy at present