Strange strange solar panels.

[SunEagle]

If you read the question, it was specifically on panel properties and not on inverters.

Read before

I believe I answered your question on why different panels provide different outputs. There isn't really any standards concerning which type of material a manufacturer has to use to make a pv panel. As long as they state what the panel is rated at in volts and amps and calculated wattage it doesn't matter if they are made from mono, poly or thin film cell materials. Yet each of those type panels provide different output characteristics.

[deepakpandey2403]

hahahaha! you're funny, coming on, claiming you're a 'programmer' who works for ABB, has a new 'magic box' inverter from that company but... has no technical back up from the company and looking for answers.. and how did you acquire this new design, I wonder ? Or is the tech/RD dept at ABB so sad they have to look online for development answers? I'm still waiting to see the product. Also wondering why you're connecting 3Kw of panels to a 2.2Kw inverter. You've given only obtuse evidence about this grand new invention soon to come... (or most likely never be). Only certain thing I understand is that it doesn't quite work as you expected.
"...good out-of-box solar PV character document/link/ref etc." is available online or from the manufacturers and can be googled easy enough. Why do you come here for that answer?

If you read the question, it was specifically on panel properties and not on inverters.

Read before

hahahaha! *you're funny, coming on, claiming you're a 'programmer' who works for ABB, has a new 'magic box' inverter from that company but... has no technical back up from the company and looking for answers.. *and how did you acquire this new design, I wonder ? Or is the tech/RD dept at ABB so sad they have to look online for development answers?

[russ]

This place is full of BS artists that have the latest and greatest - that never sees the drawing board, let alone the light of day.

Some time back we had a guy from one of the IIT's (tech universities) that was carrying on about some angel dust they had come up with that doubled panel output or some such stuff - he got lost.

[green]

Dreamers are needed in this world. I have some inventions I would like to get patents for. I've even had some ideas stolen by large companies because I was a little to loose lipped about them. I've learned to keep my ideas quite and document everything and to only discuss them with people I trust. Anyways don't be to hard on the dreamers, some just dream out loud.

[FloridaSun]

Since you really didn't provide specific differences between each product you tested I can only presume that some panels performed better than others but may still fall within the manufactures specification.

No specific differences between panels OR specifically what inverter he is using.

[FloridaSun]

25 years is a pretty long time . I really wonder how slow a learner you are. If I was in Turkey/ 'dealing' with Turkey for 25 long years, I would have been knowing in and out of its history. BTW, patience is the virtue. Wait till you actually see the product.

My thread here was on PV panels but strangely, no body is able to explain me why the problem put here actually happens. People dealing for 25 years do not make sense now.

Let's not discuss what happens to India or Turkey or the US. Let's make the planet greener by answering my question to the point. Had you been knowing the answer, the answer would have come in the first reply.

hahahaha! you're funny, coming on, claiming you're a 'programmer' who works for ABB, has a new 'magic box' inverter from that company but... has no technical back up from the company and looking for answers.. and how did you acquire this new design, I wonder ? Or is the tech/RD dept at ABB so sad they have to look online for development answers? I'm still waiting to see the product. Also wondering why you're connecting 3Kw of panels to a 2.2Kw inverter. You've given only obtuse evidence about this grand new invention soon to come... (or most likely never be). Only certain thing I understand is that it doesn't quite work as you expected.
"...good out-of-box solar PV character document/link/ref etc." is available online or from the manufacturers and can be googled easy enough. Why do you come here for that answer?

[SunEagle]

25 years is a pretty long time . I really wonder how slow a learner you are. If I was in Turkey/ 'dealing' with Turkey for 25 long years, I would have been knowing in and out of its history. BTW, patience is the virtue. Wait till you actually see the product.

My thread here was on PV panels but strangely, no body is able to explain me why the problem put here actually happens. People dealing for 25 years do not make sense now.

Let's not discuss what happens to India or Turkey or the US. Let's make the planet greener by answering my question to the point. Had you been knowing the answer, the answer would have come in the first reply.

OK. Getting back to your original question which I believe was, why do different pv manufactured panels give different results for the same sun conditions?

Forgetting that you are using a "special" inverter to measure each type panel I would say the different outcomes are based on the materials of each of the panels or how they are made. Some manufacturers do not use the same quality materials which could be a reason their product does not perform as well as another manufacturer. Another reason could be the quality control of the finished panel is not the same for each manufacturer.

Just because a panels nameplate information is similar to another does not mean they will really perform the same under real life conditions.

Since you really didn't provide specific differences between each product you tested I can only presume that some panels performed better than others but may still fall within the manufactures specification.

[deepakpandey2403]

ABB India ? Develops nothing - thy have to pick up the phone and call Europe to find out what day it is.

FYI, not to be harsh , ABB India has the largest R&D facility of ABB Group outside Europe contributing to $4.5bn revenues to the group in an year. A significant amount of group assigned revenues for R&D are allotted here and a good amount of business generated.
For instance, ABB Traction devices were developed from scratch in ABB India - Bangalore facility and then the manufacturing outsourced to ABB Germany.
All major software developments and testing are done here.

As for the matter of asking the day and time is concerned, ABB Europe (and for you as matter) are still behind time, so when we write codes here, you guys are still in dreaming mode.

I have always wondered why people have been so ignorant about the silicon valley of south Asia.

[deepakpandey2403]

I guess that the product is somewhat hard to find. When I search through the AAB India products on the web, I see only grid tie inverters.

Can you be more specific without providing an actual link?
Thanks.

Hello
The grid tie inverters (PVS300 and PVS800) are generally deal with higher ranges (coupled to generate MW range). For domestic purpose (off grid solar pump), we are in testing (beta) phase and hence has not been put on the site. However, within a month or so , it will be available as a product for commercial use and will be available on site.

[russ]

Well, the magical system which the US or Turkey might not have seen by now is developed by ABB India

ABB India ? Develops nothing - thy have to pick up the phone and call Europe to find out what day it is.

[inetdog]

Well certainly a communication gap here. Ofcourse MPPT is Max. Power Point Tracking (if we see the PV cell I-V-P char, we will be talking more sense here) and an inverter , is an inverter, the name says it all. By the way thanks for pointing the obvious.
Well, the magical system which the US or Turkey might not have seen by now is developed by ABB India (I am not marketing here, since you asked I am mentioning here). I work in ABB and was in a team which dev the MPPT. I would never expect my inverter to walk away from its installation in order to show smartness.

I guess that the product is somewhat hard to find. When I search through the AAB India products on the web, I see only grid tie inverters.

– these transformerless, single-phase inverters are suitable for small and medium-size photovoltaic systems connected to the public electricity network.

Can you be more specific without providing an actual link?
Thanks.

[deepakpandey2403]

So what we have here is a failure to communicate.
MPPT is a power harvest maximizing function
Inverters convert DC to AC.

If you take the DC provided by a MPPT device, and feed it into an inverter, you need two more things:

1) a specially designed inverter to limit it's input consumption to less than what the MPPT can provide,
preventing collapse of the MPPT and solar array. (most inverters rely on a battery to provide surge response) This must anticipate cloud events.

2) inverter smart enough to not over voltage it's output. (GT inverters rely on the Grid to do this)

Both of these exist, but not in the same package, AFIK. SunnyBoy has a model that can provide
a limited AC output of about 10% of the PV array, but a brief cloud event will shut that down. If a fridge is running, the compressor will likely stall at restart.

How about if you give us the Mfg & Model of this magical device that only you have heard of. Or else you are running a system with only a few % usage of PV array . (50 w load, 500w PV)

Well certainly a communication gap here. Ofcourse MPPT is Max. Power Point Tracking (if we see the PV cell I-V-P char, we will be talking more sense here) and an inverter , is an inverter, the name says it all. By the way thanks for pointing the obvious.
Well, the magical system which the US or Turkey might not have seen by now is developed by ABB India (I am not marketing here, since you asked I am mentioning here). I work in ABB and was in a team which dev the MPPT. It is for the European, the African and the Mexican markets where there is a demand.When you said Inverters are not smart, what do you mean. You have DSP running the most complex algorithms to govern the switching of IGBT's in a way to get an almost pure sine wave. You have thousands of protection inbuilt to protect your pump. You have Fieldbus written on it. What else do you expect. I would never expect my inverter to walk away from its installation in order to show smartness.

Note1: If you know what a perturb and observe in MPPT is , you wouldn't have talked about battery in first place.
Note2: I have not seen Japan, but I still believe that Japan exists, if you know what i mean.

Cheers!

[Mike90250]

...."MPPT inverters without battery runs fine."
If you have trouble understanding, ask! ...

So what we have here is a failure to communicate.
MPPT is a power harvest maximizing function
Inverters convert DC to AC.

If you take the DC provided by a MPPT device, and feed it into an inverter, you need two more things:

1) a specially designed inverter to limit it's input consumption to less than what the MPPT can provide,
preventing collapse of the MPPT and solar array. (most inverters rely on a battery to provide surge response) This must anticipate cloud events.

2) inverter smart enough to not over voltage it's output. (GT inverters rely on the Grid to do this)

Both of these exist, but not in the same package, AFIK. SunnyBoy has a model that can provide
a limited AC output of about 10% of the PV array, but a brief cloud event will shut that down. If a fridge is running, the compressor will likely stall at restart.

How about if you give us the Mfg & Model of this magical device that only you have heard of. Or else you are running a system with only a few % usage of PV array . (50 w load, 500w PV)

[deepakpandey2403]

I do no tbelieve a word you are saying.

That's what they said to Galileo.

Anyway, I am not here to check your understanding or to prove myself. But try doing it yourself.
"MPPT inverters without battery runs fine."
If you have trouble understanding, ask!

No offence meant to anyone.

[inetdog]

Hey inetdog

Thanks for the answer. Helps ! I did not get your bypass diode concept though. The drop(of 1V, or 0.7V ) is understood, but could you throw some more light on bypass diodes in PV panel.

Thanks

A set of cells that is shaded will produce a lower short circuit current than ones that are in full sun. If you try to push more current through those shaded cells they will act as a high resistance and may be damaged by the heating.
For this reason a diode is connected internally (or in the j-box) across every 10 or 20 volts worth of cells. This diode is back-biased (non-conducting) when the cells are producing power, but get forward biased and conducts current around the cells when the external circuit is trying to push more current through than those cells can handle at the moment. Hence the name bypass diode.
For DIY panels, there are usually two or three diodes (or pairs of diodes) mounted in the junction box, and connected to bus wires from the middle of the cell stack (two diodes) or the 1/3, 2/3 points (three diodes) and to the overall + and - leads. If there are no bypass diodes, the panels will behave very badly when partially shaded and may actually be damaged.