washing machine off solar?

[ChrisOlson]

I'll look into that dishmate product. Description is "100% plant based ingredients" but would it cut the grease in hard water? haha, those nasty chemicals have their uses.

Dishmate seems to work really good, even on greasy stuff. But she uses hot water with it and that helps too I think. Our clothes washer pumps outside and is connected to a soaker hose that is laid between the rows in our sweet corn. We get really nice sweet corn from doing that. In the summer my wife waters the tomatoes and carrots with the dish water. In the winter she waters all her house plants with it.

I think the food residue in the dish water is what provides some of the nutrients for the plants - it's organic matter. Whatever she waters with it seems to grow really lush and green. Not really sure what the analysis would be on nitrates and phos in that Dishmate though. She found a country store here locally that handles it, and she usually researches that stuff fairly in-depth, so she feels it is good for her plants.

We let bath water go down the drain. If we don't our drain field will freeze up in the winter time, and probably not enough water in the septic system without it too.
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Chris

[FloridaSun]

What do you do for bath soap? My wife says dishwater is good for the plants (and they seem to do really well on it). She uses some stuff called "Dishmate" that is supposed to not have toxic stuff in it for both dishes and clothes. Most bath and laundry soaps have toxic chemicals in them that are not good for the plants (or for people for that matter), according to her. I've never really looked into it, though, as that's her department.
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Chris

Good for plants but would probably help to flush out accumulated salinity, etc once in a while. No problems here as the soil is well draining sand and annual rainfall plenty. Plants do like the nitrates and phosphates in soapy water. Whatever toxic ingredients may be in my soaps... I wouldn't worry about it unless I was irrigating root crops eaten raw. I am picky bout my vegies and they are grown organically, no chemicals or poisons of any kind used there.
My washer drain here has been going into a dry well under some palm trees for over 60 years now and they've grown to monsters. No doubt some nasty chemicals have been flushed thru there back in 1950s-60s. I've only dug out the well once about 20 years ago to remove root mass. Arm&Hammer powder used now, never softeners, bleach very very rarely with my use.
Sink drain waters a navel orange tree and it's always been healthy, providing good fruit. I'm a fan of Dawn dish soap, powerful stuff. I'll look into that dishmate product. Description is "100% plant based ingredients" but would it cut the grease in hard water? haha, those nasty chemicals have their uses.
Shower drains to ornamentals, tropical shrubs, ferns mostly. Dial and Ivory used there.... along with whatever family/company brings as their shampoo favorite.
I'm not all that into a 'green fiend' lifestyle but live in healthy moderation, probably have an extremely low carbon footprint compared to most with my low elect. and fuel consumption.

[ChrisOlson]

haha, seriously, there is way too much irrigation water going down the drains everywhere, specially for country folk. I have the washing machine, one shower and one sink going past septic system. No problem at all as long as there is enough water going into septic tank for good slurry digestion.

What do you do for bath soap? My wife says dishwater is good for the plants (and they seem to do really well on it). She uses some stuff called "Dishmate" that is supposed to not have toxic stuff in it for both dishes and clothes. Most bath and laundry soaps have toxic chemicals in them that are not good for the plants (or for people for that matter), according to her. I've never really looked into it, though, as that's her department.
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Chris

[FloridaSun]

Well, cruel don't really apply. We've been married for 28 years and I learned after day 1 that you don't tell a Swedish woman nuthin'. I could go to all the work to put in a gray water holding system and she would bail it and carry it out anyway just because that's what she was taught as a little girl as the way to do it.
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Chris

ya, habits can be hard to adjust... maybe if you just let her wash in a tub outdoors she'd be more comfy?

haha, seriously, there is way too much irrigation water going down the drains everywhere, specially for country folk. I have the washing machine, one shower and one sink going past septic system. No problem at all as long as there is enough water going into septic tank for good slurry digestion.

[ChrisOlson]

haha, you cruel husband... come on now Chris, set that sink drain into a decent gray water system so your wife doesn't have to bail the sink.

Well, cruel don't really apply. We've been married for 28 years and I learned after day 1 that you don't tell a Swedish woman nuthin'. I could go to all the work to put in a gray water holding system and she would bail it and carry it out anyway just because that's what she was taught as a little girl as the way to do it.
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Chris

[FloridaSun]

My wife is European. After 28 years of living with her it becomes evident there is a totally different mindset that is ingrained since childhood - and the fact that energy is twice as expensive in Europe as it is in North America. It goes so deep, and is so ingrained, that my wife will not even pull the plug and drain dishwater down the drain in the sink. She bails it out and carries it outside and dumps it on the garden.
Chris

haha, you cruel husband... come on now Chris, set that sink drain into a decent gray water system so your wife doesn't have to bail the sink.

[ChrisOlson]

I believe most Americans have grown up in a throw a way society. The amount of food and products that gets trashed is criminal and the idea of recycling is just extra work for them.

Going to the Scandinavian countries is interesting. People have cars there too, but they are about 50% diesels so they're more fuel efficient than what we drive. And many of them are designed so they shut off when you come to a stop. You press on the accelerator pedal and it starts the engine back up and away you go. People in the US would not stand for that because the air conditioner might stop working when you're sitting at a stop light.

Europe also has a very well designed public transportation system that actually works, is on time and reliable. In Sweden people don't jump into a car and drive 6 blocks to buy a jug of milk. They walk or ride a bicycle, or sometimes small scooters. Sweden is about the same latitude as Fairbanks, Alaska, and yet even in the winter time people will bundle up and walk 3-4 km to get to work instead of driving a car.

You can go just about anywhere in Sweden, Denmark, Norway or Finland on public transportation at less cost and greater convenience and reliability than you can by owning a car - so there are many families that don't even own one. Here in North America our lives are pretty much centered about personal transportation and the automobile.

So it is pretty much a totally different lifestyle that most North Americans would find very hard to adapt to.
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Chris

[FloridaSun]

I believe most Americans have grown up in a throw a way society. The amount of food and products that gets trashed is criminal and the idea of recycling is just extra work for them.

They are so use to the finer things in life that "roughing it is a foreign thought. They are also the first to cry when the power goes out or when their hand held entertainment device loses connection. So sad.

Finer things in life? Americans seem to be more accustomed to ease and convenience without thinking of environmental cost or financial efficiency which shows in the multitude of newbies here expecting solar to be 'green' while providing them with wasteful luxuries.
Economic cost is eased by government entitlements. Even the poor have little consideration for anything but their mindless TV entertainment and daily trips to mcdonalds to poison their minds and bodies all the while buying chinese plastic products and thinking they have a full life.
As a 40 year survivor of traumatic injury and lifelong handicaps I've learned to live efficiently all the while never depending on guvment handouts. Maybe I have more the European view?
Many (most americanos) think cheap fuel is their savior. I say tax th ell outta it and force americans to adopt the EU view. Economics is the only way to change views.

[SunEagle]

My wife is European. After 28 years of living with her it becomes evident there is a totally different mindset that is ingrained since childhood - and the fact that energy is twice as expensive in Europe as it is in North America. It goes so deep, and is so ingrained, that my wife will not even pull the plug and drain dishwater down the drain in the sink. She bails it out and carries it outside and dumps it on the garden.

So Europeans are much faster and more inclined to spend the extra money to adopt energy efficient technology than their North American counterparts. It's all about supply and demand. If there's demand there will be supply.
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Chris

I believe most Americans have grown up in a throw a way society. The amount of food and products that gets trashed is criminal and the idea of recycling is just extra work for them.

They are so use to the finer things in life that "roughing it is a foreign thought. They are also the first to cry when the power goes out or when their hand held entertainment device loses connection. So sad.

[ChrisOlson]

I can agree with that. When I sailed in Cutter Mackinaw (WAGB 83) back in the mid 80s, we got caught in a few fall storms that were serious butt kickers. The only cutter the Coast Guard has lost in the last 30 years was in Superior, although weather didn't cause the misshap, it did turn it in to a total loss. Having said all that, the views of Pictured Rocks or Isle Royale in the fall is something that is not to miss.

Yeah, Superior is not for the novice sailor. We've been caught in a few storms and fortunately they weren't severe, but still not fun. When you get tired of tacking waves and they're loading the deck with water faster than the boat can get rid of it you just heave-to and on and off the throttles so you don't pitch pole it. Our boat is a 1965 Chris Craft steel hull, built in Holland, Michigan by boat builders that knew how to build real rough water boats. I would not sail Superior in a glass hull boat. Nothing will handle and ride rough water like a good old steel hull made with 1/4" plate.
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Chris

[ChrisOlson]

Getting back on topic (if it's not too late), why is it the appliances in Europe seem to be so much more energy efficient than what we can get here in the States?

My wife is European. After 28 years of living with her it becomes evident there is a totally different mindset that is ingrained since childhood - and the fact that energy is twice as expensive in Europe as it is in North America. It goes so deep, and is so ingrained, that my wife will not even pull the plug and drain dishwater down the drain in the sink. She bails it out and carries it outside and dumps it on the garden.

So Europeans are much faster and more inclined to spend the extra money to adopt energy efficient technology than their North American counterparts. It's all about supply and demand. If there's demand there will be supply.
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Chris

[Bfayer]

Michigan isn't too bad. Superior can be very unforgiving. If I had my choice as to where we're going to have serious problems that might cause us to have to abandon ship - I will take offshore over Superior every time.
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Chris

I can agree with that. When I sailed in Cutter Mackinaw (WAGB 83) back in the mid 80s, we got caught in a few fall storms that were serious butt kickers. The only cutter the Coast Guard has lost in the last 30 years was in Superior, although weather didn't cause the misshap, it did turn it in to a total loss. Having said all that, the views of Pictured Rocks or Isle Royale in the fall is something that is not to miss.

Getting back on topic (if it's not too late), why is it the appliances in Europe seem to be so much more energy efficient than what we can get here in the States?

[ChrisOlson]

Which is why I always go offshore with both the proper safety equipment and an abandon ship bag with water maker Eprib ( preferably dual band for satellite and rescue plane etc coverage) life raft rated for the application etc

Yep. Your chances of survival and rescue are much better off-shore than on Lake Superior under conditions that would necessitate abandoning ship. If you go into the water on Superior you will stay conscious for about 30 minutes and you will die within 2 hours. The surface temp of the water rarely gets above 44 degrees, except in the bays.

Offshore you generally have fair warning to changing weather conditions. On Superior you don't. Superior creates a "mini climate" and it can generate violent storms that weren't forecast. There is over 240 shipwrecks off Whitefish Point alone - probably the most famous being the Edmund Fitzgerald. The Fitz, when she was launched in 1958, was the biggest ship on the Great Lakes. She sailed from Port Superior on the afternoon of Nov 9, 1975 loaded with 29,250 tons of iron ore in absolutely beautiful weather. The next afternoon she was caught in an early winter storm. The ship broke in two in 35' seas and went down with all hands shortly after 7:00 PM 15 miles from Whitefish Bay. None of the bodies of the 29 men in the crew were ever recovered.

Even captains of ocean freighters and the US Navy ships that come into the Twin Ports sometimes do not mess with storms on Lake Superior.
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Chris

[Naptown]

Michigan isn't too bad. Superior can be very unforgiving. If I had my choice as to where we're going to have serious problems that might cause us to have to abandon ship - I will take offshore over Superior every time.
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Chris

Which is why I always go offshore with both the proper safety equipment and an abandon ship bag with water maker
Eprib ( preferably dual band for satellite and rescue plane etc coverage) life raft rated for the application etc

[ChrisOlson]

Sailing offshore or for that matter the Great Lakes which can have conditions as bad as offshore does require a boat suited for the purpose.

Michigan isn't too bad. Superior can be very unforgiving. If I had my choice as to where we're going to have serious problems that might cause us to have to abandon ship - I will take offshore over Superior every time.
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Chris