Brand new Yamaha EF6300iSDE instant overload (with video)

[ron_jeremy]

Heard back from the dealer today. At this point they have discovered the unit has bad breakers. The breakers are on back order, so I've asked for a full replacement and am considering going with the 4500 since our current 4500 has almost 5000 hours on it without issue.

Will keep you posted.

[Mike90250]

That's why I always leave the breakers ON on the genset, and switch off with the breakers on the wall - cheap and easy to replace them. Most cheap AC breakers are lousy at being switches.
I'll cycle them twice a year, with no load to keep the contacts cleaned.

[ron_jeremy]

Just got the unit back from the dealer. They replaced the breakers. Not sure if anything else was done since I didn't see the warranty paperwork. Anyway, got the genset back to our place & it's doing exactly the same thing as shown in the video in my original post.

Might just have to return it since I'm not sure what else I can look at here.

An old 3500/3000W unit seems to play just fine with the inverter as seen here:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/Sqpdx67SfFDKjzhP8

It goes thru the same handshake routine as our EF4500 where the "AC In Good" light flashes for 60 seconds before switching over to "Bulk" mode. For some reason, this EF6300 goes into instant overload (even before the 60-second handshake begins).

Any ideas? Could it be an inverter setting? Is the EF6300 too big?

[Mike90250]

Many inverter generators cannot handle a transformer as a load. Does your inverter weigh a half ton, like it's got a big iron core transformer in it ?

Try an experiment, get a 500w shop light, wire it in series and hope the bulb will reduce the transformer charging current enough to get it running, and then bypass the light after a couple AC cycles. may be too toough to do. Can you set the battery charging to 0 or disabled , just to see what's happenning ?

[ron_jeremy]

The inverter is a Trace SW4024. I believe it has been rebranded (somewhat) by other manufacturers (Scheider, etc.).

Why does the smaller EF4500 work? Our old crappy 'Wheelhouse' branded unit also works. Our neighbors much smaller 3000W unit work just fine, too, although really starts to struggle during the initial charging phase.

They go through the same process -- once I plug in the inverter the 'AC In Good' light flashes for 60 seconds (no load applied to generator yet) then the inverter clicks over to "Bulk' mode to begin applying load to the generator & charge the batteries. This EF6300 unit doesn't even do that -- the overload light comes on within maybe 1/4 of a second -- again, this is before any load has been applied.

This is so ****ing frustrating.

[Bala]

It may be possible the new genset has some sort of RCD/ELCB type protection?? Now commonly called safety switches.

ELCB would not likely be fitted on new items but some sort of RCD may be.

When I worked in a hire industry with the big generators they were fitted with ELCB, if we were wiring them to a mains wired building we would have to disconnect the MEN Bridge.

If the MEN bridge is not disconnected on the generator there was basically two systems, one on the genset and one on the building and it would trip the ELCB on the genset.

To me it appears to be tripping on some sort of protection system not actually over current.

It may be worth while asking questions along those lines.

First I would try running a wide range of things you have, this will enable you to isolate it to the inverter / or not.

[ron_jeremy]

Not sure what type of protection the genset has. I plan on returning it later this week & replacing it with what I know that works -- the smaller EF4500. Not looking forward to another trip hauling this thing back to the dealer because getting it to & from our home is an absolute back breaking pain in the ass.

[Bala]

Not sure what type of protection the genset has. I plan on returning it later this week & replacing it with what I know that works -- the smaller EF4500. Not looking forward to another trip hauling this thing back to the dealer because getting it to & from our home is an absolute back breaking pain in the ass.

Research seems to indicate there have been periods over the years where manufacturers have bonded/not bonded the circuits on their generators.

An electrician should be able to test and tell you in minutes if this is the case.

It would be a pain if the new model 4500 is the same / if that is the problem.

[ron_jeremy]

Hi Bala , thx for the input. Could you elaborate as to why this would cause an issue, and would it be bonded or not bonded that could possibly be the culprit?

[Bala]

IIam not an electrician, this is just info to take to an electrician.
If there is some sort of safety switch in the generator, RCD / GFI, and one in the house, then part of the system needs to be bonded. Neutral to earth.

The one in the Genset senses the one in the house as a fault and trips the safety switch/breaker.

As I said an electrician can confirm this quickly.

[JSchnee21]

I'm not sure how old these generators are (the ones that work), but in ~2010 or so OSHA implemented a requirement in which all outlets on jobsite portable generators (aka Full Panel GFI) needed to be GFI protected. Historically, the 240V outlets were not, and the 120V outlets were hit or miss. When we bought our generator (Generac XP6500E) during Hurricane Sandy the advent of GFI protection became a real problem, as did the bonded neutral.

The main GFI breaker which fed the entire panel of outlets kept tripping -- never did figure out why. Spoke to Generac several times, they kept blaming extension cord length, and other random things. In particular my electronic igniter hot water heater (AO Smith) would trip it every time it started up. My guess is that the GFI saw the current leak of the igniter as a fault. But the GFI would also trip at other times, randomly.

I knew the GFI was the issue as my neighbors were kind enough to let me share their older, smaller generators, nether of which had GFI, and all of my loads ran perfectly fine.

Interestingly that same hot water heater has issues with bonded / unbonded neutrals. In the bonded case (if I recall correctly) the electronic temperature control circuitry will not turn on at all (aka no display). It took me a while to figure this one out as well as the hot water heater would initially only work with one of three generators I tried.

Such a huge hassle. We were without power for 10 days and we needed hot water for laundry, dishes, showers, etc. It was very frustrating at the time.

In the end, I had no choice but to remove GFI protection from the panel and unbond the neutral. Now everything runs fine. Of course in today's era such things are strongly discouraged. Just don't use electrical power tools or frayed extension cords while standing in puddles out in the rain. Or in the bathtub.

But certainly, consult an electrician. A good one who actually understands electrical theory.

Aside from these regulatory annoyances, I have to say I'm very pleased with the generator. It starts and runs great and doesn't care a lick how old the fuel is (with stabilizer). And no issues with Ethanol in the gas (though I always run the bowl dry since it has a petcock).

[Mikedanis53]

Hi having the exact same problem with my 6300 Yamaha plug it in to the generator and it goes to over load immediately. I then plug it into my 5000 Honda and works fine. Yamaha said they ran it for 2 hours with no problem I plug it in and immediately goes to overload second time going back .

[Bala]

Hi having the exact same problem with my 6300 Yamaha plug it in to the generator and it goes to over load immediately. I then plug it into my 5000 Honda and works fine. Yamaha said they ran it for 2 hours with no problem I plug it in and immediately goes to overload second time going back .

The OP went to 5 different forums and of the 4 , including this one, that had replies each pointed to the neutral bonding issue as a likely cause.

[OT66]

Hey. I am not very experienced with electrical but I have run into the exact same issue that's described here. I used to run my solar system with a Yamaha 3000 inverter, then a 5000 Honda generator, without any issue. I just got a 6300 Yamaha inverter and it would instantly overload. I had my 3000 and 6300 side by side and I took my multi meter and determined that the hot is switched on those units. I had been using the same 30A, 120 cord that I used on the 3000 inverter for the 6300. It turns out that on the 6300, the hot on the receptacle is opposite of that on the 3000. I switched my hot and neutral and it seems to be working fine, charging my system and letting me run power in the camp. Does this make any sense to anyone? My silver prong on the plugin which is typically neutral now has the hot wired to it. I initially though that maybe the inverter was wired incorrectly but if many others are having the same problem, that doesn't seem to be the case. I just don't understand why the same brand unit with the same receptacle (3000 vs 6300) would be wired different. Can I get any input on this and would it appear to be safe to continue running it as I have described? Thanks.

[Mike90250]

You appear to have a dangerous miswire in the generator panel. Looking at an outlet - the 2 slots, should have a large and small slot. The small slot is always HOT, tougher to get a fork into it.