Confused and Seriously in Need of Help

[Aazoth]

I currently live in a camper that receives about 7 hours of sunlight a day. I set up four batteries in a parallel bank and have two 100 watt solar panels in direct sun. I also have a solar charger in between the solar panels and batteries and a 5000 watt 10000 peak inverter.

Currently I am trying to run AT LEAST my camper air conditioner, an iphone charger and a laptop charger; as well as my fridge.

4 batteries = 400 AH
2 solar panels = 200 Watts

Air Conditioner uses 20 Amps to start and 16 to run (Which I only need for 4 hours a day.)
Fridge takes 25 Amps for 6 hours a day.
Laptop charger takes 4 amps for 8 hours.
Iphone charger takes 3 amps for 8 hours.

Now...my current problem is the fact that when I turn off AND unplug every other device all except for my air conditioner, even after a full day of sun it will try to start and then the inverter will kick off and I hear a very long beep until I turn the inverter off. Also, after I tried the air conditioner my inverter kicked off after about 20 minutes of use with just a regular house fan.

Images of setup below:

http://imgur.com/a/pg2gb

[sensij]

I would suggest you take each of your loads and convert it to daily Watt-hours (Wh)

Wh = Amps * Voltage * hours per day

You can compare that to the battery capacity

Capacity in Wh = Ah * Voltage * 0.5 (assuming 50% discharge)

And also the generation capacity of the panels

Wh = Watts * equivalent hours of sunlight

Note that equivalent hours of sunlight is not the number of hours the sun is up each day, because sun hitting the panels at a bad angle is not as productive as sun hitting the panels directly.

[Aazoth]

I would suggest you take each of your loads and convert it to daily Watt-hours (Wh)

Wh = Amps * Voltage * hours per day

You can compare that to the battery capacity

Capacity in Wh = Ah * Voltage * 0.5 (assuming 50% discharge)

And also the generation capacity of the panels

Wh = Watts * equivalent hours of sunlight

Note that equivalent hours of sunlight is not the number of hours the sun is up each day, because sun hitting the panels at a bad angle is not as productive as sun hitting the panels directly.

Thank you for the reply, I appreciate the help greatly.

So converted my load WH is 3432
Battery WH is 2400 at 50% capacity
Solar WH is 600 at 120 watts (if a panel is shaded a little) and that is for 6 hours.

So...even just trying to run my AC only my batteries and inverter should be able to handle the load. What gives?

[inetdog]

Thank you for the reply, I appreciate the help greatly.

So converted my load WH is 3432
Battery WH is 2400 at 50% capacity
Solar WH is 600 at 120 watts (if a panel is shaded a little) and that is for 6 hours.

So...even just trying to run my AC only my batteries and inverter should be able to handle the load. What gives?

Your 400AH of battery, if FLA, can only handle 100A of discharge current, and that only of the wires are large enough and the connections between batteries and to the inverter are well made and carefully terminated.
Your 16A at 120V AC will correspond to as much as 200A from the batteries. It may be a little more possible with the PV supplying 50 or so of those amps through the CC, but it is still undersized.
The staring current is probably well over 20A peak, perhaps as much as 100A peak from a stiff 120V source (unless the AC is the inverter type or has other soft start circuitry built in) and the 20A you are seeing is an average over the first few seconds. The inverter could handle that load if it had enough 12V battery behind it with proper wiring. The reason that the inverter is beeping is that the DC at its input terminals is going too low and it is shutting down to protect your batteries.

[Sunking]

It is never going to work as you have already discovered. You are playing with fire.

You have 200 watt of panels which can only support a 12 volt 150 to 200 AH Battery. If you have a cheap PWM controller, I bet you do, can only support a 100 AH battery.
You have a 12 volt 400 AH battery which requires a 400 to 600 watt panel with 60 amp MPPT controller, and can only drive a 600 watt Inverter at most.
You have a 5000 watt Inverter which is completely INSANE and will eventually burn up all your wiring, and likely start a fire for you.

The most insane thing is you are trying to power an Air Conditioner off solar. That is crazy talk. It can be done but once you learn what it would take, you will realize it is insane.

That AC uses 1920 watts and you want to run it 44 hours per day = 8 Kwh. That requires a 2400 pound battery costing $8000 with 48 volts @ 800 AH. You only have 1/8 of the battery required.

To generate 8 Kwh per day of usable energy just for the AC unit 3000 watts of panels, a 80 amp MPPT controller operating into a 48 volt battery.

So you have 200 watts of panels. You need 3000 watts
You have a toy sized 12 volt 400 AH battery,but need a man sized 48 volt 800 AH battery
You have an unkown controller, most likely a cheap PWM unit, and you need a $700 80 amp MPPT Controller.
You have a 12 volt 5000 watt Inverter which at any minute will burn your whatever it is in trying to run the AC unit.

How is that working out for you? Enjoy summer.

[sensij]

Thank you for the reply, I appreciate the help greatly.

So converted my load WH is 3432
Battery WH is 2400 at 50% capacity
Solar WH is 600 at 120 watts (if a panel is shaded a little) and that is for 6 hours.

So...even just trying to run my AC only my batteries and inverter should be able to handle the load. What gives?

I think you should check your math on the loads. If the A/C is 120 V and takes 16 A, 120 * 16 * 4 = 7680 Wh... much, much higher than your battery or panels can support, even if you had conductors that were sized correctly.

[Aazoth]

I think you should check your math on the loads. If the A/C is 120 V and takes 16 A, 120 * 16 * 4 = 7680 Wh... much, much higher than your battery or panels can support, even if you had conductors that were sized correctly.

Ahh, did not realize I had to add another zero on the 12v. Thanks for that. I'm brand new to the solar field so all of this is trial and error for now. Thank you.

[Aazoth]

Your 400AH of battery, if FLA, can only handle 100A of discharge current, and that only of the wires are large enough and the connections between batteries and to the inverter are well made and carefully terminated.
Your 16A at 120V AC will correspond to as much as 200A from the batteries. It may be a little more possible with the PV supplying 50 or so of those amps through the CC, but it is still undersized.
The staring current is probably well over 20A peak, perhaps as much as 100A peak from a stiff 120V source (unless the AC is the inverter type or has other soft start circuitry built in) and the 20A you are seeing is an average over the first few seconds. The inverter could handle that load if it had enough 12V battery behind it with proper wiring. The reason that the inverter is beeping is that the DC at its input terminals is going too low and it is shutting down to protect your batteries.

Okay, I understand now. Thank you!

[Aazoth]

It is never going to work as you have already discovered. You are playing with fire.

You have 200 watt of panels which can only support a 12 volt 150 to 200 AH Battery. If you have a cheap PWM controller, I bet you do, can only support a 100 AH battery.
You have a 12 volt 400 AH battery which requires a 400 to 600 watt panel with 60 amp MPPT controller, and can only drive a 600 watt Inverter at most.
You have a 5000 watt Inverter which is completely INSANE and will eventually burn up all your wiring, and likely start a fire for you.

The most insane thing is you are trying to power an Air Conditioner off solar. That is crazy talk. It can be done but once you learn what it would take, you will realize it is insane.

That AC uses 1920 watts and you want to run it 44 hours per day = 8 Kwh. That requires a 2400 pound battery costing $8000 with 48 volts @ 800 AH. You only have 1/8 of the battery required.

To generate 8 Kwh per day of usable energy just for the AC unit 3000 watts of panels, a 80 amp MPPT controller operating into a 48 volt battery.

So you have 200 watts of panels. You need 3000 watts
You have a toy sized 12 volt 400 AH battery,but need a man sized 48 volt 800 AH battery
You have an unkown controller, most likely a cheap PWM unit, and you need a $700 80 amp MPPT Controller.
You have a 12 volt 5000 watt Inverter which at any minute will burn your whatever it is in trying to run the AC unit.

How is that working out for you? Enjoy summer.

If you would have looked at my previous posts, which there is only one, you would see that I am brand spakin' new to the solar field. Instead of being a dbag, why not just give good suggestions and try to help a brother out?

I am seeking to gain knowledge and learn; try not to run people off the forums okay?

[sensij]

Ahh, did not realize I had to add another zero on the 12v. Thanks for that. I'm brand new to the solar field so all of this is trial and error for now. Thank you.

Yes, anything plugged into the inverter is running at 120 V. Any loads running off the battery directly are at 12 V, for the system you've described.

[Sunking]

If you would have looked at my previous posts, which there is only one, you would see that I am brand spakin' new to the solar field. Instead of being a dbag, why not just give good suggestions and try to help a brother out?

I did, you just do not want to hear it. I told you everything wrong, and what it takes to make it work. Do it your way it it fails and will catch fire. Now you know what it takes and cannot be done. I just saved your life and a ton of cash.

[sdold]

Air Conditioner uses 20 Amps to start and 16 to run (Which I only need for 4 hours a day.)
Fridge takes 25 Amps for 6 hours a day.
Laptop charger takes 4 amps for 8 hours.
Iphone charger takes 3 amps for 8 hours.

Are these really 120V loads? The power consumption seems huge. The fridge can't be 25A at 120V. The AC, maybe, but still a lot of power. Do some of these (like the AC) run from 120V, and the rest from 12V?

[inetdog]

Ahh, did not realize I had to add another zero on the 12v. Thanks for that. I'm brand new to the solar field so all of this is trial and error for now. Thank you.

It is potentially even worse than that.
With an inverter that is 100% efficient, 16A on the 120V AC side wOULD take 160A on the 12V DC side. Assuming the battery voltage is still 12V or higher.
But the inverter is usually only 95% efficient, and the terminal voltage at that inverter DC input may drop as low as 10V if the wiring is too small.
For that case, 16A AC will correspond to 202A DC.

[SunEagle]

I currently live in a camper that receives about 7 hours of sunlight a day. I set up four batteries in a parallel bank and have two 100 watt solar panels in direct sun. I also have a solar charger in between the solar panels and batteries and a 5000 watt 10000 peak inverter.

Currently I am trying to run AT LEAST my camper air conditioner, an iphone charger and a laptop charger; as well as my fridge.

4 batteries = 400 AH
2 solar panels = 200 Watts

Air Conditioner uses 20 Amps to start and 16 to run (Which I only need for 4 hours a day.)
Fridge takes 25 Amps for 6 hours a day.
Laptop charger takes 4 amps for 8 hours.
Iphone charger takes 3 amps for 8 hours.

Now...my current problem is the fact that when I turn off AND unplug every other device all except for my air conditioner, even after a full day of sun it will try to start and then the inverter will kick off and I hear a very long beep until I turn the inverter off. Also, after I tried the air conditioner my inverter kicked off after about 20 minutes of use with just a regular house fan.

Images of setup below:

http://imgur.com/a/pg2gb

Besides not having a battery system to meet your loads that Charge controller is a cheap PWM which turns your 200 watt panel to about 130 watt.

You also do not have a full 7 hours of peak sunlight so at best you may get 5.5hr which only get you less than 700 wh of charging which is a small fraction of what you use.

Start in the beginning and calculate your true watt hour usage. Use a kill a watt meter on all of the 120volt loads. That will get you a better watt usage then just multiplying the amps times the voltage.

Once you come up with your total daily watt hour you can size your battery bank, then your panel array and charge controller. Also you will need to down size that inverter to match what your battery can safely deliver.

I will tell you that running an AC unit or large fridge requires a big battery system which can get very expensive.

[Bucho]

Sunking, I'm really confused and hoping you can help me out. I just don't get it, how'd he manage to run this: http://imgur.com/a/pg2gb#FpnoIA7 without it catching fire?