LED or CFL ?

[OvertheSun]

Someone has been drinking the Kool-Aid.

I think some of the older bulbs were sold before they were ready for prime time and have given LEDS a bad name. We got some older Phillips bulbs from SDG&E that were terrible - low light, ugly, heavy. But the newer bulbs are much better. Just like solar, you have to look at quality. I have several different types and brands that work really well, and returned ones that were no good.
I looked into some different manufacutrers and started with a company that targets commercial sales, primarily retail stores - Lighting Science. If they fail for their customers, I reasoned that it would be apparent more quickly because retail lighting is on longer than most household's. LS is still in business selling to reail stores and the bulbs get very good reviews. The ones I have are Definity BR30 14W 4100K. The light is very white, but not blue like a CFL, and much brighter than the 65W incandescent bulbs they replace. This bulb is rated at 844 lumens. I have most on dimmers so i can choose the amount of light I get. You have to use compatible dimmers. These also come in 2700, 3000, and 5000K, so if you like the color of incandescent bulbs, you can choose 2700. They are expensive ($30 or more per bulb) and you can't buy them at Home Depot or Walmart. Another thing i looked for was the beam angle, which tells you how much the light spreads. These have 120 degree beam angle, which works well in my overhead can lights. If you get bulbs with a 20 or 40 degrees spread, they are going to be more like a spot light. Finally, the appearance of the bulb was important to me. Most LEDs have strange looking heat sinks that i didn't like. The definity bulbs have a diffuser that wraps around the exposed end so the part you can see doesn't look any different than an incandescent bulb. I've been replacing these room by room starting about a year age, and now have them in 35 can lights and I have not had one fail. They have a 5 year warranty if they do.
I also have the new Cree 60 and 40 W bulbs that you can buy at Home Depot. Cree has been making LED chips for many years and their chips are considered high quality in the electronics industry, but they are relatively new in consumer lighting. I have 2700k bulbs in 8 table lamps and 2 ceiling fans and you can't tell the difference between those and IC bulbs. There's a dark spot at the very end where you can see are no chips if you look directly at the bulb, but otherwise, they are omnidirectional. I also put the neodynium coated Cree bulbs in 4 lamps that I previously had 100 W Reveal incandescent bulbs in. Side by side, there is no difference in appearance. In another location where i wanted more light in an overhead fixture, I have the 60 W 5000k bulbs. They are much brighter than the 60 W soft white IC bulbs they replace. In general, the higher color temps produce more light. So if you want lots of light, get 4000, 5000, or even 6000k. Of you like the color of fluorescent light, you'll like 4000, 5000, or 6000 K.
I also have a MaxLite G40, 2700k that looks just like the bulb it replaces and gives as much light for 15 W instead of 90. That one was hard to find. I also just replaced the under cabinet lights in my kitchen with MaxLite plug and play light bars. These only save a few Watts compared to the fluorescents (24" linear tube bulbs) that they replace, but the light quality is much better, plus, they don't get as hot as the fluorescent fixtures did. The old ones got hot enough to melt chocolate if I kept it in the cabinet directly above the light.
There is no question that these were all more expensive than the lighting they replace, and there is a risk that they won't last as long as claimed and there are still some bulbs i can't find acceptable replacements for, like the 40 W candelabra bulbs I have in the antique crystal chandelier that belonged to my mother. But overall, I'm really pleased and have saved a ton of money. I'm in San Diego and the top rate here is 0.37 kWh (summer) and most of the savings have come off that top tier. Overall, the ROI is a couple months to a couple years depending on how much each of the bulbs is used.
So, all i can say is that you might want to try some of my Kool-aid.

[russ]

Which part is not correct? the brighter part? if is the brighter part. I have them side by side. the led tube is brighter and it use 18watts compare to 40watts the regular tubes.

You have two lamps from whatever manufacturer and make sweeping statements. Typically today the small diameter tube lamp t5 tube lamp is the most efficient.

You can find all kinds of colors and intensities.

[paulcheung]

Which part is not correct? the brighter part? if is the brighter part. I have them side by side. the led tube is brighter and it use 18watts compare to 40watts the regular tubes.

[russ]

Like it or not, we have to change most of the 4' lamps to LED Tubes. They brighter than the old 4' tubes and use less than half the electricity. They are still expensive though.

Where did you learn that Paul? It is not correct.

[paulcheung]

Like it or not, we have to change most of the 4' lamps to LED Tubes. They brighter than the old 4' tubes and use less than half the electricity. They are still expensive though.

[Sunking]

The LEDs are awesome!

Someone has been drinking the Kool-Aid.

[OvertheSun]

I think they sell some of those on amazon and ebay - and LEDs too!

For me, this issue was more about the heat incandescents generate. The builder put in 35 can lights and in some placese, there isn't a viable alternative. A lot of them are wired together and you have to turn on 4 or more at the same time to light a hallway or the entry. Even with dimmers, the house got hot. 10 degrees or more an per hour. I almost never turned on the heat, but the A/C was working overtime. So i was heating the house withnthe lighting and then paying to cool it at the same time.

I tried various dimmable fluorescents, but they hissed, and hummed and flickered and lost 30-50% of their light in a few months - and they were nit cheap!

The LEDs are awesome! They put out twice as much light as the incandescents did, and they generate almost no heat. We've reduced our electric bill by about 60% since i started putting these in, most of which is from reduced A/C.

[russ]

You should experience the incandescent lamps we get here in India - the company pays the electric bill so guess who doesn't buy the more expensive CFL units. The average lamp may last one month with normal usage - some pop after a single day - they are cheap though.

[OvertheSun]

I just read an article stating that all 60 and 40 watt A-line incandescent lamps will not be allowed to be manufactured or imported into the US as of 1/1/14.

That's true, but you'll still be able to buy them until the stocks run out. 100 Watts were banned two years ago, and 75 Watt this year, but you can still find them online.
I think it has had the intended effect on the market because there are a lot more and much better LEDs out there now than a few years ago. I had stocked up on 100 W bulbs because i have some very expensive lamps in one room that have integrated dimmers and neither LEDs nor CFLs worked in these lamps at the time. But I tried the new Cree "60W equivalent"bulbs in these lamps and they work like a charm and dim very nicely. Almost as much light as the 100 Watt bulbs they replace. I've now replaced the three-way bulb sockets on the rest of my lamps with continuous dimmer sockets and LED bulbs. My family didn't even know i had made a change.
There's still some low quality bulbs out there, but it's fairly easy to identify them by reading reviews on Amazon. Some of the best bulbs are not sold at big box stores, but are widely available from online retailers like polar Ray and Earth LED that specialize in LEDs, and these sites have a wealth of information on various bulbs.

[SunEagle]

The whole field needs more development, better quality, and truth in advertising. A couple
years ago, I tried to use a lot of CFLs & LEDs to replace incandescents. Half of those devices
have failed, so much for the claimed "very long life". They were quite expensive, and claims
like "replaces a 60 watt bulb" were simply not true. I further worry that some of them can
catch on fire as the electronics fail; no such modes for my incandescents.

I have used 4' fluorescents for decades, nobody mentions they are as efficient as CFLs without
all the other issues. Other sizes get far more expensive as you leave the 4' standard, I avoid
the others. Even got rid of my 8' & used twice as many 4' instead.

About the ONLY thing CFLs have going for them, is they screw into the incandescent socket
without any thought or planning. Places where on time is extremely limited can't justify the
expensive lights, and I would like the (incandescent) lamps to IMMEDIATELY come on when I
drive in, in below zero winter.

LEDs I expect to eventually meet the challenge, but I put extra heat shields around this mod
stuff "just in case". I care less about some lighting loss with my power coming from the sun,
and none at all in the heating season trading light losses against straight heating. Bruce Roe

I just read an article stating that all 60 and 40 watt A-line incandescent lamps will not be allowed to be manufactured or imported into the US as of 1/1/14.

There are still lamps that have "instant on" capabilities like quartz but boy they do get real hot and are energy hogs compared to anything else out there.

[bcroe]

CFLs & LEDs

LED's give fairly directional light, CFL's are much more omnidirectional. Select a bulb for the purpose. And LED's need to be cool, enclosed spaces will BBQ them much quicker than a CFL in the same space. But CFL's need cooling too!

The whole field needs more development, better quality, and truth in advertising. A couple
years ago, I tried to use a lot of CFLs & LEDs to replace incandescents. Half of those devices
have failed, so much for the claimed "very long life". They were quite expensive, and claims
like "replaces a 60 watt bulb" were simply not true. I further worry that some of them can
catch on fire as the electronics fail; no such modes for my incandescents.

I have used 4' fluorescents for decades, nobody mentions they are as efficient as CFLs without
all the other issues. Other sizes get far more expensive as you leave the 4' standard, I avoid
the others. Even got rid of my 8' & used twice as many 4' instead.

About the ONLY thing CFLs have going for them, is they screw into the incandescent socket
without any thought or planning. Places where on time is extremely limited can't justify the
expensive lights, and I would like the (incandescent) lamps to IMMEDIATELY come on when I
drive in, in below zero winter.

LEDs I expect to eventually meet the challenge, but I put extra heat shields around this mod
stuff "just in case". I care less about some lighting loss with my power coming from the sun,
and none at all in the heating season trading light losses against straight heating. Bruce Roe

[thastinger]

What type of inverter are you planning to run these lights from?

[SunEagle]

LED's give fairly directional light, CFL's are much more omnidirectional. Select a bulb for the purpose. And LED's need to be cool, enclosed spaces will BBQ them much quicker than a CFL in the same space. But CFL's need cooling too!

I agree that most of the original style LED lamps were very directional.

Now with the introduction of the Cree style light bulbs you get the same omnidirectional output of a standard screw in type bulb. It is a combination of how the LED chips are arranged and how the "cover" will provide a more uniform light dispersion.

Another thing is that while the LED lamps need to have some type of cooling I can unscrew one that has been lit for a while and not burn my fingers.

[Mike90250]

LED's give fairly directional light, CFL's are much more omnidirectional. Select a bulb for the purpose. And LED's need to be cool, enclosed spaces will BBQ them much quicker than a CFL in the same space. But CFL's need cooling too!

[inetdog]

Why couldn't my choice be simple as either incandescent or led...

LED hands down

I will take into account the tint/shade of the bulb. Im assuming I want Cool White?

The tint you want is very much an individual choice and may vary from room to room and use type to use type.
I find cool white very annoying most of the time and it gives an impression of greater glare to most people.
For any work involving color vision, it is just as important to look at the details of the spectral distribution (as indicated imperfectly by the Color Rendering Index, CRI) as to look at the color temperature.
Although I do not favor warm white, especially in CFLs, because I consider it too yellow, an intermediate color temperature often known as neutral white in LED terminology seems to me to be the best for general use.
My rule of thumb: Warm white (3000K or lower) for general living areas, where your personal preference is for a warm fire/candlelight feel.
Neutral white (between 3500K and 3800K) for cooking and working, and cool white (4000K and up) only for safety and outdoor lighting where more simple visibility per watt is more important than light quality.

The light distribution in space varies extremely from one type of LED bulb to another, much more than the variation found with a CFL using the common spiral design.
LED bulbs with a "band" of high intensity perpendicular to the axis of the bulb may work well in ceiling fixtures for wide area lighting, but will be very poor in table lamps with shades.
LED bulbs which direct most of the light away from the base are great in can lights (track or recessed) but also poor for table lamps where the bulb is oriented base down.

Rather than generalize too much, you really need to look at the exact models of LED bulb that are available and see each of them lit to decide which will be best for a particular purpose.