springtime solar update

[Mike90250]

Sunny days are here ! Just giving a quick update on status here at the ranch.

Our Rheem rooftop solar heater (the 47 gallon Solaraide Passive) is being fed with 60F water from our tempering tank.
This afternoon, after a reasonably short shower, the outlet of the tank was reading 135F water, that was being fed to our tankless stand-by/booster water heater. This makes our propane sales man unhappy, but I don't care.

This past winter, the stainless steel thermosiphon loop in our masonry heater, brought our tempering tank (80 gal) up to about 100F on a daily basis, resulting in preheated water feeding the tankless, requiring it to only boost the water 20F instead of 80F. Less fossil fuel again, only what's needed to chainsaw 3 cords of wood.

The only drawback, is that the rooftop heater on the 2nd floor, is about
40' of 3/4" plumbing away from the tankless, so that when a short dose of hot water is needed, there is several gallons of cooled water standing in the pipe that feeds the tankless. A single story install would have less water in the loop, and be a bit more efficient in that regard.

Our solar PV system (3KW) is much happier, now, no clouds, so no cranking up the generator in the mornings. We're consuming about 8 KWh daily right now, running the irrigation pump for about 2 hours (2KWh for pump) and the batteries are at float by noon most of the time. But in the winter, with clouds, I'd needed about an hour of the generator (about 2.5KWh, 2 qt of bio-diesel) daily, to keep the batteries up. Ambient solar was doing the rest, and careful consumption (sun's out, quick, start the laundry, OK to make toast) made the solar harvest stretch.
We've converted most of the lights now, to fairly decent warm white (2700K) dimmable and non-dimmable bulbs, with a couple of florescent circleline fixtures in critical areas.

The slow sand drinking water filter has been working pretty well,
and last years water test showed no pathogens.

http://www.rheem.com/product/solar-water-heaters-solaraide-passive-solar-system

tankless: http://www.eternalwaterheater.com/products.html

http://www.cdc.gov/safewater/sand-filtration.html

All for now.
Mike

[SunEagle]

Sunny days are here ! Just giving a quick update on status here at the ranch.

Our Rheem rooftop solar heater (the 47 gallon Solaraide Passive) is being fed with 60F water from our tempering tank.
This afternoon, after a reasonably short shower, the outlet of the tank was reading 135F water, that was being fed to our tankless stand-by/booster water heater. This makes our propane sales man unhappy, but I don't care.

This past winter, the stainless steel thermosiphon loop in our masonry heater, brought our tempering tank (80 gal) up to about 100F on a daily basis, resulting in preheated water feeding the tankless, requiring it to only boost the water 20F instead of 80F. Less fossil fuel again, only what's needed to chainsaw 3 cords of wood.

The only drawback, is that the rooftop heater on the 2nd floor, is about
40' of 3/4" plumbing away from the tankless, so that when a short dose of hot water is needed, there is several gallons of cooled water standing in the pipe that feeds the tankless. A single story install would have less water in the loop, and be a bit more efficient in that regard.

Our solar PV system (3KW) is much happier, now, no clouds, so no cranking up the generator in the mornings. We're consuming about 8 KWh daily right now, running the irrigation pump for about 2 hours (2KWh for pump) and the batteries are at float by noon most of the time. But in the winter, with clouds, I'd needed about an hour of the generator (about 2.5KWh, 2 qt of bio-diesel) daily, to keep the batteries up. Ambient solar was doing the rest, and careful consumption (sun's out, quick, start the laundry, OK to make toast) made the solar harvest stretch.
We've converted most of the lights now, to fairly decent warm white (2700K) dimmable and non-dimmable bulbs, with a couple of florescent circleline fixtures in critical areas.

The slow sand drinking water filter has been working pretty well,
and last years water test showed no pathogens.

http://www.rheem.com/product/solar-water-heaters-solaraide-passive-solar-system

tankless: http://www.eternalwaterheater.com/products.html

http://www.cdc.gov/safewater/sand-filtration.html

All for now.
Mike

Nice to hear about a success story Mike.

[russ]

Mountain Mike came out his man cave at the end of a long winter!

[inetdog]

... reading 135F water, that was being fed to our tankless stand-by/booster water heater. This makes our propane sales man unhappy, but I don't care.

This past winter, the stainless steel thermosiphon loop in our masonry heater, brought our tempering tank (80 gal) up to about 100F on a daily basis, resulting in preheated water feeding the tankless, requiring it to only boost the water 20F instead of 80F. Less fossil fuel again, only what's needed to chainsaw 3 cords of wood.

Are you using a propane tankless that is designed to be able work with a very low temperature increase at low flow?
If not, then as the input water from the tempering tank drops just a little bit below the set point of the tankless, it will not be able to regulate output temperature unless you have a very high GPM flow. Otherwise I would expect it to pulse on and off, giving a temperature swing unless you also put a tempering tank or valve on the output of the tankless.

[Mike90250]

Are you using a propane tankless that is designed to be able work with a very low temperature increase at low flow? ......

Yes

the Eterna has a multi-stage burner, and a 2 gallon thermal stability tank, it's done pretty well, keeping a
pretty stable shower temp. It's also got a "caleffi mixing valve" at the inlet, set to mix a wee bit of cold water to feed it nothing hotter than 115F.

http://www.houseneeds.com/shop/hydronicheating/mixing-valves-hydronic-plumbing-index.asp

&

http://www.caleffi.us/caleffi/en_US/Site/Products/Product_news/args/detail/~Details~News~news_detail_0000140/type/newshome/index.sdo

MixingValveWP.JPG

[Sunking]

Mike a sincere question. Any regrets?

[SunEagle]

Mike a sincere question. Any regrets?

Probably only when is snows and he has to clear off the panels.

[FloridaSun]

Probably only when is snows and he has to clear off the panels.

Mike is west of Willets and notta lotta snow there being within 20 miles of the Pacific as the raven flies. My cabin, east of Willits, was at 2,000 feet and it rarely snowed more than a few inches.
Mike, hopefully you're up in elevation there and not in the depths of Irmulco...

[Mike90250]

I'm not in a canyon. At the same elevation as the valley floor, we only get an inch, maybe 2, in 1 or 2 snows a year.

The NiFe batteries are thirsty beasts, always drinking water, I thought it would slow down in the winter, but it didn't slow much. I'm now trying to fine tune my absorb time, to see what works best.
I'm disappointed that even though the batteries are slated for electrolyte replacement periodically, there is no provision to drain them, they have to be inverted, or have the case modified for a siphon tube.
the NiFe vendor behaves more like a salesman, and not the liaison between a unusual technology and
the mfg. This is a disappointment, along with a sole source replacement chemical clause or void the warranty. I don't know what's worse, electrolyte changeouts, or total battery bank changeouts, I guess I'll be able to compare in a couple years when I'm due.

If I had lead acid batteries, I'd have less generator run time in the winter, but it would be more
critical to perform to prevent sulfation of the LeadAcid.

I'd add another hot water circ pump to the collector and storage tank, and a third to the storage tank to the tankless heater. I end up with a bunch of hot water on the roof, and cold water in the interconnecting pipes, and over half my hot water use, is feeding cooled solar water to the tankless in small batches that never heat up the pipes.

I am looking for a small, auto-start genset, <5KW, but I don't think anyone makes one that small. So it's all mixed, the Masonry Heater works, electric works, water mostly works. The electric front gate worked for about 20 hours, then seems to have died. The fencing company is a month late.... All the
country life I can handle. But we did have a turkey walk up to the kitchen door today (it was open) and the bird nearly walked in. Naturally, our Viking range, has a dead oven, while we have a live bird at the door!

[inetdog]

Naturally, our Viking range, has a dead oven, while we have a live bird at the door!

Had a Viking oven at previous house. Reliability was terrible. The oven design requires the glow bar to be on continuously when the burner is on, since the heat opens the gas valve. The glow bars do not last, and the single-source Viking replacement prices are, IMHO, outrageous.

The infrared broiler failed when a spot weld holding a re-enforcing strip to the mesh broke. That left a hole that allowed air into the space above the mesh, leading to periodic explosions instead of steady heating. The only possible repair was to replace then entire burner unit. Not happy with that. (If I had equipment to weld stainless, I suppose it could have been repaired, but brazing would just have melted.)

[FloridaSun]

I am looking for a small, auto-start genset, <5KW, but I don't think anyone makes one that small.
But we did have a turkey walk up to the kitchen door today (it was open) and the bird nearly walked in. Naturally, our Viking range, has a dead oven, while we have a live bird at the door!

Just did a google shopping search for "generator electric start" and came up with several down to 3000 watts. Gas tho, didn't notice any propane fueled.
haha, I would have invited that turkey in for dinner... yummy. My nearest neighbor was only 1/4 mile away and the old fart was an amazing primitive cook, made duck with orange sauce one time cooking the duck outside on a bed of coals with an old wheelbarrow upside down to make an oven.
Inquisitive critters up there... I had a deer poke it's head in the door one night (after it finished off my herb garden right outside) and bears on the porch a few times.

[SunEagle]

I'm not in a canyon. At the same elevation as the valley floor, we only get an inch, maybe 2, in 1 or 2 snows a year.

The NiFe batteries are thirsty beasts, always drinking water, I thought it would slow down in the winter, but it didn't slow much. I'm now trying to fine tune my absorb time, to see what works best.
I'm disappointed that even though the batteries are slated for electrolyte replacement periodically, there is no provision to drain them, they have to be inverted, or have the case modified for a siphon tube.
the NiFe vendor behaves more like a salesman, and not the liaison between a unusual technology and
the mfg. This is a disappointment, along with a sole source replacement chemical clause or void the warranty. I don't know what's worse, electrolyte changeouts, or total battery bank changeouts, I guess I'll be able to compare in a couple years when I'm due.

If I had lead acid batteries, I'd have less generator run time in the winter, but it would be more
critical to perform to prevent sulfation of the LeadAcid.

I'd add another hot water circ pump to the collector and storage tank, and a third to the storage tank to the tankless heater. I end up with a bunch of hot water on the roof, and cold water in the interconnecting pipes, and over half my hot water use, is feeding cooled solar water to the tankless in small batches that never heat up the pipes.

I am looking for a small, auto-start genset, <5KW, but I don't think anyone makes one that small. So it's all mixed, the Masonry Heater works, electric works, water mostly works. The electric front gate worked for about 20 hours, then seems to have died. The fencing company is a month late.... All the
country life I can handle. But we did have a turkey walk up to the kitchen door today (it was open) and the bird nearly walked in. Naturally, our Viking range, has a dead oven, while we have a live bird at the door!

Generac makes a 6kw Ecogen series that has a 2 wire start feature. I was going to buy one but due to cost ended up with a refurbished 3250 watt portable LPG unit that I got for only $500. Still have to yank the cord on that one though.

[Mike90250]

We have a Viking model with spark ignition, I hate 400w glo-bars. May as well have an electric oven! Apparently, Viking (made in USA) has had an issue with in-compatible parts from vendors. Brand A gas valve will not interface with Brand C control relay.....

I've got 3 pull/crank start gensets. Don't need more, but thought I'd put feelers out for small autostart for times when I'm asleep and battery levels get too low.

[Sundetective]

I'm not in a canyon. At the same elevation as the valley floor, we only get an inch, maybe 2, in 1 or 2 snows a year.

The NiFe batteries are thirsty beasts, always drinking water, I thought it would slow down in the winter, but it didn't slow much. I'm now trying to fine tune my absorb time, to see what works best.
I'm disappointed that even though the batteries are slated for electrolyte replacement periodically, there is no provision to drain them, they have to be inverted, or have the case modified for a siphon tube.
the NiFe vendor behaves more like a salesman, and not the liaison between a unusual technology and
the mfg. This is a disappointment, along with a sole source replacement chemical clause or void the warranty. I don't know what's worse, electrolyte changeouts, or total battery bank changeouts, I guess I'll be able to compare in a couple years when I'm due.

If I had lead acid batteries, I'd have less generator run time in the winter, but it would be more
critical to perform to prevent sulfation of the LeadAcid.

I'd add another hot water circ pump to the collector and storage tank, and a third to the storage tank to the tankless heater. I end up with a bunch of hot water on the roof, and cold water in the interconnecting pipes, and over half my hot water use, is feeding cooled solar water to the tankless in small batches that never heat up the pipes.

I am looking for a small, auto-start genset, <5KW, but I don't think anyone makes one that small. So it's all mixed, the Masonry Heater works, electric works, water mostly works. The electric front gate worked for about 20 hours, then seems to have died. The fencing company is a month late.... All the
country life I can handle. But we did have a turkey walk up to the kitchen door today (it was open) and the bird nearly walked in. Naturally, our Viking range, has a dead oven, while we have a live bird at the door!

Mike,

Doubt that the Chinese Ni-Fe Cell Warranty I published in this Forum applies to you since
you didn't get the free
E-Xpert Pro Battery Monitor.

The Ni-Fe Cell Warranty your Nickel Iron Salesman was touting as of 8/1/11
can be found here:

http://www.fieldlines.com/index.php/topic,146754.msg1007021.html#msg1007021

Old Bill doesn't see a word about you HAVING to buy junk grade chemicals from da man.

Just Battery Oil (if you wants it)
that 'Diamond' John Mario didn't have at the time anyway.

However there is ALWAYS talk about keeping
Records and Testing
for Electrolyte Carbonate -

or you get booted out of John's Warranty Shrine.

Specific charging requirements.

Do you meet them or is the Charging Set-up inadequate and undersized?


Bill Blake

[Mike90250]

beutilityfree seems to have some issues anyway....

http://box393.bluehost.com/suspended.page/disabled.cgi/beutilityfree.com

yet last week, I got an email from them about a committed buyer abandoning an order and it being available for sale.

As for charging,

The following conditions must be met or guarantee is NULL and VOID:
1. The batteries are used in a home power system or approved system by BeUtilityFree™,Inc.™ engineering department.

The word OR covers a lot of ground. And I only consume 10% or so of battery capacity, complete absorb and float daily (unless it's cloudy, and run the genset to keep them up to the 70% mark, and let the first sunny day top them off. I have a couple of generators to chose from, in various sizes, depending on my expected loads, and how much fuel I want to burn. (we've got a couple days of cloud forecast this week, yesterday I double checked and prepped 2 generators for it.)