Permitting Requirements for Off-Grid

[liquidDog]

I called my city and at first they said it is illegal for a homeowner to install a solar system. This is, coincidentally, why I have no interest in a grid-tie system. There are too many conflicts of interest, and way too many fingers in the pie.

I asked, "If I buy a 45 watt panel at Harbor Freight and hook a radio up to it, am I breaking the law in this city?" The conversation went nowhere, and I finally convinced him that I would not need a utility meter except for out of curiosity. He gave me his supervisors number where I left a message. The supervisor called me back and I explained my setup. He said that I would need a "master electrician" to apply for a permit, because I would be considered a service provider.

Just out of curiosity, has anybody else tried to get a permit for a battery-based off-grid system? My opinion would be it's none of their business, but I could understand if they want an electrician sign-off to ensure the system is safe (I can get this). It sounds more like they are saying I am a "service provider" so have to get a yearly permit based on how many kilowatts I produce?

[Sunking]

The dividing line in Austin and most any other city if the any of the wiring is part of the premisses wiring for light and power, they will be required to follow all local codes and permitting process.

Now with that said if all the wiring, apparatuses, equipment and any thing associated with the solar system are part of the home, then the city does not have jurisdiction. It them becomes something like Christmas lights which add no value to your property for tax purposes or a public threat.

So if you do not attach anything to your home, keep it plug-n-cord connected, and portable you can do it. Just keep one thing in mind, the local authority having jurisdiction has the legal right and authority to interpret the code as he or she wishes, and has the authority to have your electricity turned off and hold you in jail until you comply.

[liquidDog]

The dividing line in Austin and most any other city if the any of the wiring is part of the premisses wiring for light and power, they will be required to follow all local codes and permitting process.

Now with that said if all the wiring, apparatuses, equipment and any thing associated with the solar system are part of the home, then the city does not have jurisdiction. It them becomes something like Christmas lights which add no value to your property for tax purposes or a public threat.

So if you do not attach anything to your home, keep it plug-n-cord connected, and portable you can do it. Just keep one thing in mind, the local authority having jurisdiction has the legal right and authority to interpret the code as he or she wishes, and has the authority to have your electricity turned off and hold you in jail until you comply.

Thanks for the insight. My system will be portable as I intend to take it with me whenever I move. Next weeks project will be welding the stand for the panels which is designed to be completely modular, easy to disassemble and move. I'm building a power shed which is also designed to be moveable, in the way that you can have a shed delivered as one piece.

It sounds like the grey area is attaching the power to your home. My goal was to have a panel (installed by an electrician) next to my main panel and slowly move over 15-20A circuits to it as my solar system grows. Considering my oven, dryer, and water heater are natural gas powered, it's not unthinkable that I could move over everything except the central A/C.

I may have to rethink this somewhat, but I will not be defeated! I don't see living in the city for more than a few more years. We've owned this house for five years, which was longer than our original plan due to property devaluation. Maybe the city should focus on that instead? -rant-

[Sunking]

It sounds like the grey area is attaching the power to your home. My goal was to have a panel (installed by an electrician) next to my main panel and slowly move over 15-20A circuits to it as my solar system grows.

No that is not a grey area, it is very black and white. Do that and it becomes part of the premisses wiring system and all codes apply.

The problem is you are not only putting yourself at risk, you are putting the fire department, police, water department, neighbors, tax collector, and your insurance carrier at risk.

[liquidDog]

I get what you are saying, and I do intend to have an electrician double check my design and implementation.

It is black and white that if you are moving circuits over from one panel to another and using existing wiring inside the walls to provide power, this is wiring in the structure. But if you drill a small hole in the side of your house and plop an extension wire through, and hook a TV up to it, is that considered the same thing?

[Sunking]

But if you drill a small hole in the side of your house and plop an extension wire through, and hook a TV up to it, is that considered the same thing?

Technically no but that does fall into the grey area. Like I said the AHJ is always right and can interpret the codes anyway they wish.

[Mike90250]

And often in a "city" dwellings are expected to have sewer, water and electric connections to be habitable. Get rid of any one of them and the city can and will, red tag your house, till you correct the flaw.

And you may not even be allowed to have 8 or 16 deep cycle batteries, because they are listed as hazardous materials.

It's very hard to fight city hall.

My system is in a rural area, and PV installs over 50 watts require permits

[liquidDog]

That's great news, because that means every golf cart running around here is in violation. I guess theoretically they are nuclear bombs just waiting to happen.

I can't wait to get out of the city. We are looking at 5-10 acre tracts, where the biggest concern is having friendly relations with your neighbors in case a snake bites you and you need help. Or you run out of sticks of butter and don't want to drive 20 miles to get more.

I am researching fire sprinkler heads to install in the power shed. It would not take a rocket scientist to plumb one in. I do take safety seriously. We have to keep the dog safe!

[axis11]

http://www.bigstockphoto.com/image-2267872/stock-photo-sprinkler-heads

[russ]

http://www.bigstockphoto.com/image-2...prinkler-heads

That should get exciting in the event they were ever activated - this would be an electrical fire.

[raydias]

That's great news, because that means every golf cart running around here is in violation. I guess theoretically they are nuclear bombs just waiting to happen.

I can't wait to get out of the city. We are looking at 5-10 acre tracts, where the biggest concern is having friendly relations with your neighbors in case a snake bites you and you need help. Or you run out of sticks of butter and don't want to drive 20 miles to get more.

I am researching fire sprinkler heads to install in the power shed. It would not take a rocket scientist to plumb one in. I do take safety seriously. We have to keep the dog safe!

Unfortunately just because you move to the country does not mean you don't have permit rules from the county. just a different organization to work with who probably has the same NEC guidelines etc as everyone else.

[Sunking]

Unfortunately just because you move to the country does not mean you don't have permit rules from the county.

Very good Sir.

[liquidDog]

I believe this is the exemption from the permit:

http://www.ci.austin.tx.us/development/onestop/downloads/permits_homeowners.pdf

I'm still researching it.

Halon would be the best (and most expensive) choice, but sprinklers are required in electrical rooms in buildings containing a sprinkler system. I imagine it ruins all equipment, but must be better than nothing...

http://www.hsbplc.com/myths.aspx

See also: Section 8.15.10.1 of NFPA 13

You did get me looking, and I found an automatic fire extinguisher on Amazon that is basically a fire extinguisher with a sprinkler head on it, that you mount to the ceiling. It says it activates at 155F, and is Type A,B,C

[Sunking]

I believe this is the exemption from the permit:

http://www.ci.austin.tx.us/development/onestop/downloads/permits_homeowners.pdf

I'm still researching it.

You lost me.The link says if you own the home, you can pull a permit and do the work yourself. However that does not mean you do not have to jump through all the hoops, comply with building codes, and pass inspection.

[liquidDog]

Yes, that is how I read it. You still have to get the permit and go through the inspection process. But you don't have to have a contractor do 100% of the work. It's interesting that it says a electrician can't do *any* of the work.

It also reads that if you were to do a on-grid system in this city you wouldn't be able to touch it. The ideal scenario is you would assemble your team. An electrical architect, roofer, drywall guy, and electrician. You could take bids on different parts of the system. You could even do some of the grunt work yourself. Not here though. That's what I was saying about too many fingers in the pie. Soon enough you won't be able to plug a toaster in without a contractor getting in on the action.

I just want to get this system up and running before the oil fields in the Middle East dry. Credible estimates show we have no more than 20 years left of easy oil. We won't "run out," but it will be extremely expensive to get to and pump out what is left.

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2048242,00.html