Off Grid System - 1st timer - Advice / checking for correct setup

[williams.watson]

Hey fair enough, I guess it could be my loss but ill stick with the Costco batteries for this initial setup. I appreciate the info though and I meant no offense its just half the links on their website do not work and all the hundreds of videos and blogs I have read have never once mentioned them so it leaves me to wonder, price points are great and all but at the end of the day if I am left without any help or warranty once they go belly up its not worth the hassle imo.

I can't agree any more ,thanks ,Bcos I met with the same problem

[sidpost]

To the degree that's a reasonably accurate observation, I'd think small companies who don't develop ways to stay with the pack in terms of how they communicate their wares and services to the public can expect to pay the price of not having the confidence and so some of the business from the growing number of folks who are more in tune with the way things work today.

I deal with custom knifemakers who are really skilled at their craft and if I relied on their websites or social media to make a purchase, I would miss out on some real gems. The skills needed to be a craftsman and those needed to be a web developer or social media personality are often not a part of what makes the craftsman so good at what they do in my experience.

Those that don't have a child or friend beside them to handle the Internet are often overlooked and missed by most people in my experience.

In my purchase from the Houston store, I did all my purchase decisions and discussions with Jenny and was rewarded with a great transaction on my 302Ah CATL batteries. Today, I would consider a direct wire transfer to avoid the credit card fees and Alibaba commission but, in my case, it was pretty much a wash due to high wire transfer fees on my end. Whether anyone else wants to buy batteries from Amy or Jenny is up to them. Personally, I would go with Jenny again but, Amy has an awesome reputation as well but, pick up for me in Houston is an easy win if they are in stock.

[J.P.M.]

Small companies focused on delivering products are not the best at websites generally. At least that is my experience. That could be because they are bad business men/women or that they are simply focused on delivering their products and customer service, not hovering over a website update process.

To the degree that's a reasonably accurate observation, I'd think small companies who don't develop ways to stay with the pack in terms of how they communicate their wares and services to the public can expect to pay the price of not having the confidence and so some of the business from the growing number of folks who are more in tune with the way things work today.

[sidpost]

Hey fair enough, I guess it could be my loss but ill stick with the Costco batteries for this initial setup. I appreciate the info though and I meant no offense its just half the links on their website do not work and all the hundreds of videos and blogs I have read have never once mentioned them so it leaves me to wonder, price points are great and all but at the end of the day if I am left without any help or warranty once they go belly up its not worth the hassle imo.

In terms of dead links, they move a lot of batteries and things available in any given container are different from day to day, meaning stuff comes and goes out of stock.

If you take the time to talk to them or email someone like Jenny, they will tell you upfront what is currently in stock and what the price is. They also know what is on the water or in port. In my case, I waited a week or so for the CATL batteries I preferred though EVE were in stock.

Small companies focused on delivering products are not the best at websites generally. At least that is my experience. That could be because they are bad business men/women or that they are simply focused on delivering their products and customer service, not hovering over a website update process.

[J.P.M.]

Hey fair enough, I guess it could be my loss but ill stick with the Costco batteries for this initial setup. I appreciate the info though and I meant no offense its just half the links on their website do not work and all the hundreds of videos and blogs I have read have never once mentioned them so it leaves me to wonder, price points are great and all but at the end of the day if I am left without any help or warranty once they go belly up its not worth the hassle imo.

It would seem that, as usual, opinions vary and yours is based on perception - and shown here, right or wrong, customer perception is everything to the vendor. Pay your money - take your choice.

[PySoMaNiC]

Hey fair enough, I guess it could be my loss but ill stick with the Costco batteries for this initial setup. I appreciate the info though and I meant no offense its just half the links on their website do not work and all the hundreds of videos and blogs I have read have never once mentioned them so it leaves me to wonder, price points are great and all but at the end of the day if I am left without any help or warranty once they go belly up its not worth the hassle imo.

[sidpost]

...Those websites seem very shady especially the one you actually linked, I have seen these before and so far have only seen very negative reviews on their owners being left in the dark as the suppliers they bought from closed up shop.

If you are talking about the Docan Power out of Houston, TX, calling them 'very shady' is WRONG. I have been there personally and while not a Mega-Lo-Mart, they are a real tangible entity in Texas.

[sdold]

The MPPT controller uses whatever power is available from the panels whether they are in series or parallel, and converts it to the appropriate charging voltage and current for the battery. In parallel the panel current is doubled, in series the panel voltage is doubled, but either way the total panel power is the same so the charge controller output current and voltage to the battery is the same.

Remember that power is volts x amps, so with series or parallel, the total power harvested by an MPPT controller is the same. The advantage to wiring panels in series is that, with higher voltage and less amps, you can use smaller wire to carry the same power. On the other hand parallel wiring can better tolerate partial shading. But either way is OK as long as the series wiring doesn't exceed the max voltage of the controller, and parallel wiring still has high enough voltage to allow the MPPT controller to operate.

Also a simple switch at the panel connection to the charge controller would be enough to turn off the panels for servicing if you want that ability, as long as it's DC rated for that voltage and current. The reason breakers or fuses aren’t needed for the panels is that they have limited current capability and can’t produce enough to damage the wires, unless three or more are in parallel, which then would require a fuse/breaker on each parallel panel.

[PySoMaNiC]

Hey I was thinking the same thing about wiring them in parallel, and got a phone call from a supplier today to help me out pointing out that in the cold weather I would have a problem with probably burning out the MPPT over time as its so close to the max voltage. It does get down to -30C here in the winter. I also remember reading that as long as my short circuit current was less then the current of my MPPT that no fuse / breaker was needed, so I am a bit upset that they up sold me 2 breakers, though they have been the most responsive and helpful suppliers yet. I still dont understand the point of wiring panels this size in series since they are all 45volts + so they are capable of charging a 24V system, having them in parallel makes more amps and faster charging no? or does it actually not matter at all with an MPPT?

[sdold]

I'd wire the panels in parallel since the combined Voc in series could exceed the 100V input limit of the controller. How cold does it get there? Also there's no reason to have a circuit breaker on the panels unless you want to switch the panel off for servicing. It's not needed for overcurrent protection with only two panels in parallel. Make sure it's a DC-rated for the voltage and current.

[PySoMaNiC]

I appreciate the advice and info, but I am not really sold on this yet I still trust that I can walk into any Costco here in Canada and get a replacement in the next 3 years if I have any issues. Where as any of these companies you talk about I have to deal with over probably the span of many weeks while I sit at home in the dark. Those websites seem very shady especially the one you actually linked, I have seen these before and so far have only seen very negative reviews on their owners being left in the dark as the suppliers they bought from closed up shop.

[sidpost]

I bought CATL 302Ah cells for $143/ea (USD) so, you would need 8 for a 24VDC system. With "Depth Of Discharge" differences, In my case, 122ah lead-acid batteries are ~$105/ea (USD) and would require multiple strings for the same discharge capacity with a much shorter overall lifespan.

Like you, I would stay away from Renogy batteries if I needed more than what one single battery would offer.

I would suggest you get batteries from Jenny at https://www.docanpower.com/ where I got mine. Being in Canada may or may not present an issue if you need warranty service but, these are really good batteries and are not rejects or recycled Chinese bus batteries. Amy is another well-regarded supplier.

I, and many others, are very satisfied with both options which are China-based. Stick with EVE or CATL new cells and you will do well. Your SUPPLIER out of China matters as much or more than the 'brand'. With Jenny having batteries in Houston, Texas, that option was an easy one for me. Previously, I was looking at a LTL (Less Than Truckload) shipment out of California from China which has been widely reported as a good experience in recent times when buying through Amy.

Finally, if Renogy batteries were attractive to you, I would suggest looking at Signature Solar (.com) GYL/EG4 lithium batteries out of Sulphur Springs, Texas. I have been to their facility and they 'assemble' them there based on Chinese components at the present time (EG4 packs).

[PySoMaNiC]

I actually bought a 200AH LifePO4 from renogy but after reading and now dealing with their terrible customer service I have since cancelled my order. I just cant justify the cost increase for the same amount of capacity at the moment, and lack of reputable dealers in Canada that are decently priced, the ones that are reputable charge 300-400% more then LA. I know that in the long run it is worth it, but this is just my 1st setup and Costco has a great warranty and price point 170$ per 120AH Deep Cycle LA. I figure in 3-5 years there will be a dramatically cheaper LifePO4's and I will probably end up building my own from cells.

On top of all that to have the same redundancy is also a cost increase, with 6 LA's I have some room for failure.

I was under the impression the MPPT is smart enough to manage the charging of my battery bank? Can I not get DOD from voltage of the bank?

[sidpost]

Why lead-acid batteries instead of LiFeP04? A little more expensive and you need a BMS (<$100) but, a lot more lifespan and allows a deeper discharge without harm.

[PySoMaNiC]

I still dont see how you got that off your chart I dont see anything about 24V in there, but I did use some calculators online and it does say you are correct with a 2% voltage drop I can run 4AWG almost 20 feet. Do you have any idea about my solar panel setup how I should set them up either parallel or series? And can I place the breaker inside closer to the MPPT?